1 00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:03,878 Thank you for tuning in to Voices for Freedom, an anti-human trafficking 2 00:00:03,878 --> 00:00:04,838 podcast. 3 00:00:04,838 --> 00:00:07,132 We want to acknowledge that the content we discuss 4 00:00:07,132 --> 00:00:11,052 can be emotionally challenging and may evoke strong reactions. 5 00:00:11,052 --> 00:00:14,889 The stories we share often delve into tough subjects related to human 6 00:00:14,889 --> 00:00:18,518 trafficking, which may be difficult for some listeners to hear. 7 00:00:18,518 --> 00:00:20,770 Our goal is to raise awareness and promote 8 00:00:20,770 --> 00:00:24,607 understanding of the complexities surrounding human trafficking. 9 00:00:24,607 --> 00:00:27,277 Listener discretion is advised. 10 00:00:32,490 --> 00:00:33,033 Coming up 11 00:00:33,033 --> 00:00:36,619 on Voices for Freedom, an anti-trafficking podcast. 12 00:00:36,619 --> 00:00:41,416 A lot of victims don't start having memories till later in life. 13 00:00:41,416 --> 00:00:45,086 And what commonly happens is survivors start having dreams. 14 00:00:45,086 --> 00:00:50,550 They'll have dreams that they're handed a knife and are forced to stab a baby. 15 00:00:50,550 --> 00:00:55,221 They're having dreams that someone is ripping their chest open 16 00:00:55,221 --> 00:00:59,851 and shoving an eyeball in and then saying, “If you ever tell, we're always watching you,” 17 00:00:59,851 --> 00:01:01,311 and stitch them back up. 18 00:01:01,311 --> 00:01:04,522 Sometimes they have notes sent to them. 19 00:01:04,522 --> 00:01:08,026 They'll have things left in their home, like a dead mouse or a dead 20 00:01:08,026 --> 00:01:11,196 animal saying, “Don't ever tell.” 21 00:01:15,950 --> 00:01:16,534 Welcome to 22 00:01:16,534 --> 00:01:19,829 Voices for Freedom, an anti-trafficking podcast. 23 00:01:19,829 --> 00:01:22,540 Today, my guest is Casey Gilboy. 24 00:01:22,540 --> 00:01:25,335 She works at a ministry called Relentless Hope. 25 00:01:25,335 --> 00:01:30,131 And they work with survivors of human trafficking and ritual abuse. 26 00:01:30,131 --> 00:01:32,926 I'm so excited to have this conversation today 27 00:01:32,926 --> 00:01:38,306 because we want to really help educate our audience on what ritual abuse is 28 00:01:38,306 --> 00:01:41,101 and that there's hope and resources out there 29 00:01:41,101 --> 00:01:44,062 if that is something that you have gone through. 30 00:01:44,062 --> 00:01:46,648 And I feel like ritual abuse is such a term 31 00:01:46,648 --> 00:01:50,026 that people can't even wrap their mind around. 32 00:01:50,026 --> 00:01:53,530 And for people that have been through ritual abuse, oftentimes 33 00:01:53,530 --> 00:01:56,699 they don't even know that that's what they went through. 34 00:01:56,699 --> 00:02:02,789 I have a friend of mine who - she was in her 20s when she realized what she had 35 00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:03,998 went through. 36 00:02:03,998 --> 00:02:07,669 Meaning, she knew that she had a horrible childhood. 37 00:02:07,669 --> 00:02:11,923 She knew that she had been sexually abused. 38 00:02:11,923 --> 00:02:17,846 She knew that there were weird robes involved and twists 39 00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:20,473 on religious practices. 40 00:02:20,473 --> 00:02:24,811 But it wasn't until she was in her 20s that she started to put together 41 00:02:24,811 --> 00:02:27,897 that, “Oh, I was trafficked. 42 00:02:27,897 --> 00:02:30,942 Oh, I went through ritual abuse.” 43 00:02:30,942 --> 00:02:32,902 And she talks about it 44 00:02:32,902 --> 00:02:36,030 in ways where she's like, “I didn't even have terminology for it. 45 00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:37,740 I didn't know what I went through. 46 00:02:37,740 --> 00:02:42,954 I was literally a little girl when this all started.” 47 00:02:42,954 --> 00:02:47,333 So when you talk about ritual abuse, 48 00:02:47,333 --> 00:02:49,169 if somebody was trying to 49 00:02:49,169 --> 00:02:53,590 understand what they've been through themselves 50 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:56,384 or what a friend has been through and they're trying to 51 00:02:56,384 --> 00:03:01,222 put vocabulary to it, what would that be like? 52 00:03:01,222 --> 00:03:02,849 What you said is exactly 53 00:03:02,849 --> 00:03:06,811 the situation, Jessica, where many survivors 54 00:03:06,811 --> 00:03:11,691 don't realize it's happening at the time because the way trauma works is it's 55 00:03:11,691 --> 00:03:15,111 so horrifying to be a child 56 00:03:15,111 --> 00:03:18,489 and experience the abuse that the brain locks it away 57 00:03:18,489 --> 00:03:20,909 in a little trauma box in the brain, you could put it. 58 00:03:20,909 --> 00:03:25,371 And a lot of the times, they don't have any memory of the abuse. 59 00:03:25,371 --> 00:03:26,998 Lots of times they were drugged as well. 60 00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:31,961 So a lot of victims don't start having memories till later in life. 61 00:03:31,961 --> 00:03:35,757 And what commonly happens is survivors start having dreams. 62 00:03:35,757 --> 00:03:41,221 They'll have dreams that they're handed a knife and are forced to stab a baby. 63 00:03:41,221 --> 00:03:45,892 They're having dreams that someone is ripping their chest open 64 00:03:45,892 --> 00:03:50,355 and shoving an eyeball in and then saying, “If you ever tell, we're always watching 65 00:03:50,355 --> 00:03:51,981 you,” and stitch them back up. 66 00:03:51,981 --> 00:03:55,151 Sometimes they have notes sent to them. 67 00:03:55,151 --> 00:04:00,114 They'll have things left in their home, like a dead mouse or a dead animal 68 00:04:00,114 --> 00:04:03,493 saying, “Don't ever tell,” if they start having memories. 69 00:04:03,493 --> 00:04:06,996 A lot of times the abusers keep track of the victims, 70 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:08,957 even if they're not being abused anymore 71 00:04:08,957 --> 00:04:10,875 and growing up, trying to keep them silent. 72 00:04:10,875 --> 00:04:15,046 So, a lot of the times, their memories don't even start till later in life. 73 00:04:15,046 --> 00:04:18,675 So what will happen is a survivor will start having these dreams or memories. 74 00:04:18,675 --> 00:04:21,302 Start googling it, “What's wrong with me?” 75 00:04:21,302 --> 00:04:23,554 And then a lot of times, they'll find our website, 76 00:04:23,554 --> 00:04:24,973 which talks about ritual abuse. 77 00:04:24,973 --> 00:04:28,726 And then they have a word for it, like, “Oh, it was ritual abuse. 78 00:04:28,726 --> 00:04:30,144 That's what I went through.” 79 00:04:30,144 --> 00:04:34,816 And the ritual abuse is different than other forms of sex trafficking 80 00:04:34,816 --> 00:04:38,695 because it's more than just being forced to have sexual relations with someone 81 00:04:38,695 --> 00:04:39,529 against your will. 82 00:04:39,529 --> 00:04:42,824 It's sacrifices of animals and people. 83 00:04:42,824 --> 00:04:46,160 It's in the middle of the night, being taken from your home 84 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,205 and taken to an undisclosed location. 85 00:04:49,205 --> 00:04:51,165 And sometimes they don't remember where they were taken. 86 00:04:51,165 --> 00:04:52,709 So then they don't even know if it was real. 87 00:04:52,709 --> 00:04:54,252 Sometimes it's underground. 88 00:04:54,252 --> 00:04:56,838 Sometimes they're taken to church buildings, 89 00:04:56,838 --> 00:05:00,300 people's homes, parks, and 90 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:05,305 the abuse can go as far as 91 00:05:05,305 --> 00:05:07,640 being anally raped, 92 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,102 objects forced up 93 00:05:11,102 --> 00:05:14,272 their private parts, being forced to rape other children, 94 00:05:14,272 --> 00:05:15,898 being forced to kill other children, 95 00:05:15,898 --> 00:05:19,861 being forced to watch other people being killed, being forced to drink blood. 96 00:05:19,861 --> 00:05:23,281 And then these are rituals, meaning it happens on a regular basis. 97 00:05:23,281 --> 00:05:25,241 So whether it's once a week, once a month 98 00:05:25,241 --> 00:05:30,496 but it happens regularly for years and years and years. 99 00:05:30,496 --> 00:05:31,080 Which causes 100 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,167 extreme trauma, especially in children, where it fractures their brain. 101 00:05:34,167 --> 00:05:37,462 And often, they developed DID. 102 00:05:37,462 --> 00:05:41,466 And that's why sometimes their memories don't come until later in life. 103 00:05:41,466 --> 00:05:45,053 Many survivors, their - you could call it - 104 00:05:45,053 --> 00:05:48,556 their programing starts falling apart around age 30 or 40, 105 00:05:48,556 --> 00:05:52,602 and they can't keep it together anymore because the trauma needs to come out, 106 00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:54,395 and it's a good thing. It’s a good thing 107 00:05:54,395 --> 00:05:55,355 their memories are coming. 108 00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:56,731 It's a good thing they're feeling 109 00:05:56,731 --> 00:05:58,608 something happen, like you said, with your friend. 110 00:05:58,608 --> 00:06:01,903 And then that's where they come to us and ask for help. 111 00:06:01,903 --> 00:06:04,322 And we, number one, believe them, 112 00:06:04,322 --> 00:06:07,033 and number two, say, “We're here to help.” 113 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:11,996 That is so difficult to even think about that 114 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:16,751 being somebody's childhood. When the survivors come forward 115 00:06:16,751 --> 00:06:20,588 and they share their stories, whether that's with you or family members, 116 00:06:20,588 --> 00:06:24,425 do they ever feel like, “What's the point? 117 00:06:24,425 --> 00:06:25,885 Nobody will believe me?” 118 00:06:25,885 --> 00:06:29,055 Or do they feel like 119 00:06:29,055 --> 00:06:31,015 they're finally getting the freedom to share? 120 00:06:31,015 --> 00:06:33,226 What is that like for them 121 00:06:33,226 --> 00:06:36,521 when they're getting ready to share for that first time? 122 00:06:37,355 --> 00:06:40,400 My favorite thing about our survivors is 123 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,694 they want to make sure this doesn't happen to another child. 124 00:06:43,694 --> 00:06:47,240 And all of them are passionate about making a difference 125 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,035 in trying to help save another child from this abuse. 126 00:06:51,035 --> 00:06:54,038 They have incredible compassion, incredible 127 00:06:54,038 --> 00:06:57,542 depth of empathy, and they join the ministry 128 00:06:57,542 --> 00:07:01,712 and a lot of them say, “I can't wait to get healed so I can help other survivors.” 129 00:07:01,712 --> 00:07:06,300 And, it just, it breaks your heart, but it also gives you so much hope and joy 130 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:10,304 that someone who has been so deeply abused - physically, emotionally, 131 00:07:10,304 --> 00:07:14,100 sexually - immediately wants to turn around and help someone else. 132 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:16,310 And it's a beautiful thing to see. 133 00:07:16,310 --> 00:07:21,065 It like, almost brings me to tears because I think about 134 00:07:21,065 --> 00:07:23,818 not only are they, like, working through their own 135 00:07:23,818 --> 00:07:28,281 extreme trauma, but they're saying, “I want to help somebody else,” 136 00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:32,285 which means that then, I mean, that could mean so many different things, 137 00:07:32,285 --> 00:07:38,749 but that means I want to heal so that I can love and keep people safe. 138 00:07:38,749 --> 00:07:44,213 These survivors are so brave and they truly are heroes for so many others. 139 00:07:44,213 --> 00:07:48,468 Like you said, they want to help so this doesn’t happen to other kids. 140 00:07:48,468 --> 00:07:50,636 What would you say are some of the things 141 00:07:50,636 --> 00:07:53,764 that people could watch for? 142 00:07:53,764 --> 00:07:57,226 Because, like you said, this is happening in the United States. 143 00:07:57,226 --> 00:07:59,729 This isn't something that is just in foreign countries. 144 00:07:59,729 --> 00:08:05,610 This is in our own cities, in our backyards. 145 00:08:05,610 --> 00:08:06,694 And I feel like 146 00:08:06,694 --> 00:08:11,199 a lot of listeners, they’re like, “I wouldn't even know what to look for,” if 147 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:16,120 I - let's say I'm a mom. I've got a fourth grader. And I notice 148 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:22,210 there's something in my friend's kid. There's something that's going on. 149 00:08:22,210 --> 00:08:25,463 What would a parent look for, 150 00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:30,384 and what are some of those signs that they might be able to identify? 151 00:08:30,384 --> 00:08:31,135 Yeah. 152 00:08:31,135 --> 00:08:35,848 Unfortunately, the way that satanic ritual abuse is 153 00:08:35,848 --> 00:08:40,228 formed is it's designed to keep the victims silent because 154 00:08:40,228 --> 00:08:44,732 mostly their abusers are their family, close friends, or community. 155 00:08:44,732 --> 00:08:49,737 So, they have been warned or programmed, whether they subconsciously 156 00:08:49,737 --> 00:08:51,781 know it or not, that if they tell, 157 00:08:51,781 --> 00:08:54,909 that their siblings will be killed, their mother will be killed. 158 00:08:54,909 --> 00:08:56,994 They use that against them a lot. 159 00:08:56,994 --> 00:09:01,249 So it's really hard to get a child to open up and tell the truth. 160 00:09:01,249 --> 00:09:05,586 And what we've found is it's just important to, 161 00:09:05,586 --> 00:09:09,549 if you see something, say something. And it's never 162 00:09:09,549 --> 00:09:14,428 a loss to call DCFS, to talk to a police officer. 163 00:09:14,428 --> 00:09:18,808 And the more exposure that a child would get - that someone sees 164 00:09:18,808 --> 00:09:23,145 something's wrong - they might feel safe eventually to open up to someone. 165 00:09:23,145 --> 00:09:25,022 They might not open up the first time. 166 00:09:25,022 --> 00:09:26,607 But, just that - 167 00:09:26,607 --> 00:09:29,735 I think for that child just to know someone was looking out for them 168 00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:33,155 gives them someone in their mind they know they could talk to someday, 169 00:09:33,155 --> 00:09:37,076 and they may not talk to you, the friend, but they might 170 00:09:37,076 --> 00:09:40,663 eventually talk to the second or third police officer that stops by. 171 00:09:40,663 --> 00:09:42,707 But anything is better than nothing. 172 00:09:42,707 --> 00:09:44,834 Saying nothing is the worst thing we could do, 173 00:09:44,834 --> 00:09:47,461 and that's something we're working with right now. 174 00:09:47,461 --> 00:09:51,007 We're trying to figure out a program we could present to teachers 175 00:09:51,007 --> 00:09:53,342 in the school system, exactly what you said, 176 00:09:53,342 --> 00:09:57,096 ways to look for abuse that children may be going through 177 00:09:57,096 --> 00:10:00,391 and how we could help that child open up and find out more 178 00:10:00,391 --> 00:10:03,686 so that we could start to figure out a safety plan for them. 179 00:10:03,686 --> 00:10:06,689 Well, Casey, I love your honest answer because I think a lot of times 180 00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:10,735 people are looking for, “Here's the ten red flags to look for 181 00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:16,073 if somebody is being trafficked.” And in reality, it takes relationship. 182 00:10:16,073 --> 00:10:20,578 It takes trust and building for somebody to feel safe enough to open up. 183 00:10:20,578 --> 00:10:23,456 And then also that their family members aren't going to get killed 184 00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:27,293 or they're not going to be in trouble or they're [not] going to get abused more. 185 00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:32,089 And that reminds me of my friend who had gone through ritual abuse 186 00:10:32,089 --> 00:10:35,217 and she said it was a teacher in elementary school 187 00:10:35,217 --> 00:10:36,927 that was just really nice to her. 188 00:10:36,927 --> 00:10:40,890 That gave her positive reinforcement of who 189 00:10:40,890 --> 00:10:44,644 she was as a person, the work that she did in the classroom. 190 00:10:44,644 --> 00:10:49,774 And she said that the teacher's words of encouragement sustained her 191 00:10:49,774 --> 00:10:53,903 so many times when she was going through 192 00:10:53,903 --> 00:10:57,323 the next decade of ritual abuse. 193 00:10:57,323 --> 00:11:02,578 And, sometimes it's not something that's going to be identified right away, 194 00:11:02,578 --> 00:11:06,832 but it might be somebody that speaks truth and love into their life, 195 00:11:06,832 --> 00:11:12,922 even as a teacher or a friend or a parent, whatever that looks like. 196 00:11:12,922 --> 00:11:13,673 Exactly. 197 00:11:13,673 --> 00:11:18,594 And I think because Utah is such a family-friendly state we love living here. 198 00:11:18,594 --> 00:11:20,304 We love raising our kids here. 199 00:11:20,304 --> 00:11:22,473 But the unfortunate truth is that 200 00:11:22,473 --> 00:11:26,727 the majority of survivors are trafficked by their own family. 201 00:11:26,727 --> 00:11:27,895 If you do see something 202 00:11:27,895 --> 00:11:31,190 that's off, to trust your gut and follow through with that instead of thinking, 203 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:32,441 “Oh, that wouldn't happen here. 204 00:11:32,441 --> 00:11:34,568 I'm just making that up.” 205 00:11:34,568 --> 00:11:36,237 No, listen to your gut intuition. 206 00:11:36,237 --> 00:11:39,365 Like you said, if you think your neighbor's kid or 207 00:11:39,365 --> 00:11:44,328 your friend's kid or someone may be being ritually abused or trafficked, 208 00:11:44,328 --> 00:11:49,250 to say something about it, and maybe it's saving a life. 209 00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:54,588 Utah is a beautiful state, and there's so many wonderful things about it. 210 00:11:54,588 --> 00:11:57,967 And I think, because of that, sometimes it's hard to look at 211 00:11:57,967 --> 00:11:59,468 the dark side of things. 212 00:11:59,468 --> 00:12:01,679 But I do agree with you 213 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,599 that if we see something, say something, and that really does help shed 214 00:12:05,599 --> 00:12:10,020 light on to the things that we often don't want to look at. 215 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:13,357 And these are hard conversations. We don't always get invited 216 00:12:13,357 --> 00:12:16,694 back to some dinners because of the conversation 217 00:12:16,694 --> 00:12:20,906 that comes up, but I hope that people are getting 218 00:12:20,906 --> 00:12:26,370 more involved and willing to engage more on these topics because we really do 219 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:31,000 want to shed light on it so that we can stop trafficking. 220 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,419 We want to help kids be safe in our communities. 221 00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:37,882 We want them to be able to have safe adults that they can talk to. 222 00:12:37,882 --> 00:12:40,968 And also to know that they are not alone. 223 00:12:40,968 --> 00:12:44,555 So if you've been trafficked, if you've gone through ritual abuse, 224 00:12:44,555 --> 00:12:48,976 please know that you're not alone, that there's help and support out there. 225 00:12:48,976 --> 00:12:51,645 If you want to reach out to OUR Rescue 226 00:12:51,645 --> 00:12:55,858 or if you want to reach out to Relentless Hope, please do not hesitate, 227 00:12:55,858 --> 00:12:59,862 and we will do our best to support you and to walk alongside. 228 00:12:59,862 --> 00:13:04,450 We're going to take a break right now, and we will come back in just a little bit. 229 00:13:05,534 --> 00:13:07,578 I want to thank today's sponsor, 230 00:13:07,578 --> 00:13:11,248 the OUR Rescue Store, for supporting this podcast. 231 00:13:11,248 --> 00:13:14,168 Did you know that OUR Rescue Store 232 00:13:14,168 --> 00:13:16,295 features survivor-made items? 233 00:13:16,295 --> 00:13:18,047 In this critical fight, 234 00:13:18,047 --> 00:13:20,925 they serve as symbols of hope. 235 00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:25,262 By choosing to purchase one of these beautifully handmade items, 236 00:13:25,262 --> 00:13:28,933 you will impact the healing journey of survivors 237 00:13:28,933 --> 00:13:33,229 and help them reclaim their lives in the process. 238 00:13:33,229 --> 00:13:38,609 We encourage you to shop survivor-made items on the OUR Rescue website. 239 00:13:38,609 --> 00:13:43,989 It might only be a few dollars to you, but it makes a world of difference to them. 240 00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:49,203 And, in case you need any extra motivation, use promo code 241 00:13:49,203 --> 00:13:52,832 Voices10 for 10% off your purchase 242 00:13:52,832 --> 00:13:55,835 at store.ourrescue.org. 243 00:13:55,876 --> 00:14:02,132 That's Voices10 at store.ourrescue.org 244 00:14:02,258 --> 00:14:06,846 Welcome back to Voices for Freedom, an anti-trafficking podcast. 245 00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:08,848 As you've been listening, we've been talking about 246 00:14:08,848 --> 00:14:10,975 some really difficult things. 247 00:14:10,975 --> 00:14:15,271 Hearing about ritual abuse is not easy, and a lot of people 248 00:14:15,271 --> 00:14:16,605 don't believe that it's real. 249 00:14:16,605 --> 00:14:21,026 Even you hearing it now, [it] might be your first time of ever hearing about it, 250 00:14:21,026 --> 00:14:24,238 but I thank you for engaging in this conversation. 251 00:14:24,238 --> 00:14:28,534 And we want to give more information on how you can get involved, 252 00:14:28,534 --> 00:14:34,874 different things that are applicable to either, if you've been trafficked, 253 00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:39,378 if you've been through ritual abuse, “What can I do to get support and help?” 254 00:14:39,378 --> 00:14:42,464 And also if you want to get involved in 255 00:14:42,464 --> 00:14:45,426 helping a survivor of ritual abuse or trafficking. 256 00:14:45,426 --> 00:14:46,594 So I'm here with Casey, 257 00:14:46,594 --> 00:14:50,431 and we are going to talk more about those specific things now. 258 00:14:50,848 --> 00:14:52,224 Casey, you're a huge 259 00:14:52,224 --> 00:14:56,228 advocate for helping with all kinds of things, internet safety, 260 00:14:56,228 --> 00:15:02,234 helping families really know how to keep their kids safe from pornography, 261 00:15:02,234 --> 00:15:06,363 from trafficking, from sextortion, all these different things. 262 00:15:06,363 --> 00:15:11,619 And, more recently, you got involved with this ministry 263 00:15:11,619 --> 00:15:17,333 so that you could specifically help with survivors of ritual abuse as well. 264 00:15:17,333 --> 00:15:22,171 What is your passion behind getting more involved 265 00:15:22,171 --> 00:15:23,756 when a lot of people want to run away 266 00:15:23,756 --> 00:15:27,509 when they've already been an advocate in so many different areas? 267 00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:29,929 I've been a pastor's wife for 17 years. 268 00:15:29,929 --> 00:15:33,557 I've lived overseas as a missionary, doing relief and development work. 269 00:15:33,557 --> 00:15:36,852 And I've also worked with church members 270 00:15:36,852 --> 00:15:40,856 for so many years and started realizing 271 00:15:40,856 --> 00:15:44,443 trafficking and sexual abuse is a huge problem in America as well. 272 00:15:44,443 --> 00:15:48,280 So I started researching, taking counseling courses. 273 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,284 I just went above and beyond what maybe the normal person would do 274 00:15:52,284 --> 00:15:55,955 because I was ready to dive in and learn the truth of it 275 00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:57,623 because I wanted to be better equipped 276 00:15:57,623 --> 00:16:00,626 as a pastor's wife to help our church members. 277 00:16:00,626 --> 00:16:05,464 But then I started realizing, this is a huge problem everywhere, and 278 00:16:05,464 --> 00:16:08,842 I was just desperate to join some sort of ministry 279 00:16:08,842 --> 00:16:12,888 and put all my knowledge and pastoral experience to use. 280 00:16:12,888 --> 00:16:16,934 And so I was thrilled when Cindy Metcalf, the director of Relentless Hope 281 00:16:16,934 --> 00:16:20,479 Ministry, called me and asked me to join last year. 282 00:16:20,479 --> 00:16:22,064 Did you have any hesitation? 283 00:16:22,064 --> 00:16:27,069 Because I feel like, even for me, you give up some of your innocence 284 00:16:27,069 --> 00:16:33,534 when you get more involved, and sometimes it affects how you look at things. 285 00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:34,785 I know for me, 286 00:16:34,785 --> 00:16:39,665 how I look at different social media platforms is completely different now 287 00:16:39,665 --> 00:16:44,420 because I know that kids get trafficked through these social media platforms. 288 00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:48,841 And so, for me, it's almost a trigger when somebody is talking about it. 289 00:16:48,841 --> 00:16:54,680 And I know with trafficking and wanting to keep kids safe, that's 290 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,017 also something I feel like I've given up some of my innocence of thinking 291 00:16:58,017 --> 00:17:01,770 that kids are safe, and I'm more protective now. 292 00:17:01,770 --> 00:17:07,192 So when somebody calls you and says, “Do you want to help out in a ministry, 293 00:17:07,192 --> 00:17:10,529 in an organization that is specifically for 294 00:17:10,529 --> 00:17:15,075 sex trafficking and survivors of ritual abuse?” 295 00:17:15,075 --> 00:17:18,370 Did you have any hesitation or nerves about that? 296 00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:23,375 I personally didn't, but that was because my heart had been prepared for years. 297 00:17:23,375 --> 00:17:25,002 I had all this knowledge, 298 00:17:25,002 --> 00:17:29,089 and I wanted to put it to use, and I had my years of, you could say, 299 00:17:29,089 --> 00:17:33,260 losing my innocence, learning about trafficking and sexual abuse. 300 00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:37,014 And everyone has their time frame where you learn that it happens, 301 00:17:37,014 --> 00:17:41,143 you feel the grief, you feel the disgust because you're human. 302 00:17:41,143 --> 00:17:45,147 And we should. No child or person should have to go through 303 00:17:45,147 --> 00:17:46,940 trafficking or ritual abuse. 304 00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:52,529 But after a few years of that, my grief settled, and it turned to righteous anger. 305 00:17:52,529 --> 00:17:56,366 And I'm like, “I'm done grieving, and I'm ready to participate, 306 00:17:56,366 --> 00:17:57,409 and I'm ready to serve.” 307 00:17:57,409 --> 00:18:00,287 And everyone I know has their time frame of grieving. 308 00:18:00,287 --> 00:18:03,791 It feels like you hit people with a bomb sometimes when you tell them 309 00:18:03,791 --> 00:18:05,793 about trafficking and ritual abuse. 310 00:18:05,793 --> 00:18:09,338 And we know it takes them time to digest it and process it, 311 00:18:09,338 --> 00:18:12,883 and then on their own time, decide how they want to get involved. 312 00:18:12,883 --> 00:18:16,428 So by the time she called me, I was ready to go. 313 00:18:16,428 --> 00:18:19,932 And I was so excited to finally join 314 00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:23,769 a ministry, helping survivors not only in America but Utah. 315 00:18:23,769 --> 00:18:24,686 That really makes sense, 316 00:18:24,686 --> 00:18:29,024 and I like that you explained your journey because I do feel like a lot of people, 317 00:18:29,024 --> 00:18:33,946 when they first hear about it, it's that bomb, and it's the grieving. 318 00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:36,490 It's the giving up of the innocence. 319 00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:40,119 And that actually, I think, would be encouraging for people 320 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,330 to hear and our listeners to hear 321 00:18:43,330 --> 00:18:47,835 because sometimes it stops there, where they're like, “Okay, I'm 322 00:18:47,835 --> 00:18:50,754 so sad and so hurt 323 00:18:50,754 --> 00:18:54,299 and so angered that this happens, and I just want to run away. 324 00:18:54,299 --> 00:18:57,803 But with your process, you leaned in until it became, 325 00:18:57,803 --> 00:18:59,721 like you said, “A righteous anger. 326 00:18:59,721 --> 00:19:01,974 I'm going to do something about it.” 327 00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:07,104 And, even for men, because I feel like my 328 00:19:07,104 --> 00:19:11,775 guy friends often feel like their first response is, 329 00:19:11,775 --> 00:19:13,527 “I want to kill that trafficker. 330 00:19:13,527 --> 00:19:17,447 I want to go after the people that hurt this child.” 331 00:19:17,447 --> 00:19:21,743 And, there's understanding and why they feel like that. 332 00:19:21,743 --> 00:19:25,164 But if they do that, then they're going to go to prison for murder, 333 00:19:25,164 --> 00:19:29,334 and they don't feel like there's something that they can actually do. 334 00:19:29,334 --> 00:19:34,548 So, when you talk about your process and getting to that righteous anger 335 00:19:34,548 --> 00:19:38,760 and, “I'm going to do something about it,” and Relentless Hope, 336 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,389 you were actually able to then lean in and do something about it. 337 00:19:42,389 --> 00:19:47,144 So with Relentless Hope, I believe you're a survivor advocate. Is that right? 338 00:19:47,144 --> 00:19:47,394 Yes. 339 00:19:47,394 --> 00:19:49,563 So I am a board member, 340 00:19:49,563 --> 00:19:53,525 victim advocate, treasurer, and survivor support group leader. 341 00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:55,444 Well that's a lot of hats. 342 00:19:55,444 --> 00:19:57,738 Yes, and I love wearing them. 343 00:19:57,738 --> 00:20:01,241 What is your favorite hat that you wear? 344 00:20:01,241 --> 00:20:04,786 I love being in charge of the survivor support group. 345 00:20:04,786 --> 00:20:08,749 It is monthly, and I'm walking the survivors through the book, 346 00:20:08,749 --> 00:20:12,085 ‘The Body Keeps Score,’ so they can start to process their trauma 347 00:20:12,085 --> 00:20:14,087 but also look forward with hope. 348 00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:16,173 The design of the book - 349 00:20:16,173 --> 00:20:20,844 if you've heard of the book or read it - it's purpose isn't to just 350 00:20:20,844 --> 00:20:25,140 soak in the trauma and just relive it over again. 351 00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:29,144 It's how can we move forward, and how can we become our best selves? 352 00:20:29,144 --> 00:20:32,189 How has this trauma actually made us a great person? 353 00:20:32,189 --> 00:20:34,233 What are the good things about us, 354 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,485 and how can we use that to make the world a better place? 355 00:20:36,485 --> 00:20:40,489 And it really brings the survivors out of their trauma cycle and gives them 356 00:20:40,489 --> 00:20:44,409 hope that they have things they still have to offer this world. 357 00:20:44,409 --> 00:20:47,579 And they have a unique perspective on life because they have empathy, 358 00:20:47,579 --> 00:20:49,289 and they want to help others 359 00:20:49,289 --> 00:20:52,376 because they don't want anyone to go through what they went through. 360 00:20:52,376 --> 00:20:54,753 So it's a survivor support group. 361 00:20:54,753 --> 00:20:58,340 And how would a survivor get involved 362 00:20:58,340 --> 00:21:01,843 or reach out to you guys if they wanted to be a part of that? 363 00:21:01,843 --> 00:21:03,303 So if you go to our website, 364 00:21:06,014 --> 00:21:07,808 you can sign up with your email, 365 00:21:07,808 --> 00:21:09,935 and our director will get back to you 366 00:21:09,935 --> 00:21:12,354 and give you information on when our 367 00:21:12,354 --> 00:21:13,772 support group is and assign 368 00:21:13,772 --> 00:21:17,359 you a victim advocate, and you will start your healing journey. 369 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,071 And the survivor support groups are all on Zoom, so people can join 370 00:21:21,071 --> 00:21:24,741 from all across America, and they can join from the comfort of their home. 371 00:21:24,741 --> 00:21:26,201 They can mute their microphone 372 00:21:26,201 --> 00:21:29,955 and turn off their video camera if they don't feel comfortable being seen. 373 00:21:29,955 --> 00:21:34,001 Because many of our survivors are afraid of being re-trafficked or stalked. 374 00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:37,629 And for those that have started to feel safe and unmute their microphone 375 00:21:37,629 --> 00:21:41,925 and turn their video camera on, they participate in our discussion questions 376 00:21:41,925 --> 00:21:45,178 after I give the lesson, and they start to encourage each other 377 00:21:45,178 --> 00:21:48,432 on their healing journey and feel like they have hope again 378 00:21:48,432 --> 00:21:51,685 and feel like they have a community of people to support them. 379 00:21:51,685 --> 00:21:55,981 I think the hardest thing is, is their hope afterwards? 380 00:21:55,981 --> 00:21:59,359 And any time that we start to feel like, “I'm hopeless,” 381 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,864 for any of us, if it goes to the point of feeling hopeless, then it's like, 382 00:22:03,864 --> 00:22:06,366 “Well now what? What am I even living for?” 383 00:22:06,366 --> 00:22:10,120 And so to have other survivors surrounding each other 384 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:11,705 and being able to really speak truth 385 00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:15,667 into each other's life and hope, I think that's really incredible. 386 00:22:15,667 --> 00:22:20,005 So if somebody wanted to become a survivor 387 00:22:20,005 --> 00:22:23,008 advocate, is that something they could do as well, 388 00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:24,968 or what does that process look like? 389 00:22:24,968 --> 00:22:28,013 For anyone that's interested in how they can join our ministry, 390 00:22:28,013 --> 00:22:32,017 they can go to our website, fill out the contact form that's on there, 391 00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:34,353 and our director, Cindy, will get back to them, 392 00:22:34,353 --> 00:22:38,398 and we will do the vetting process, do some background checks, 393 00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:41,943 find out what your experience is, where your mental health level's at, 394 00:22:41,943 --> 00:22:46,239 and we will decide if someone is safe enough to work with our survivors. 395 00:22:46,239 --> 00:22:49,993 And even if they aren't able to become an advocate or serve 396 00:22:49,993 --> 00:22:53,455 directly on our staff, we appreciate the prayers, the support, 397 00:22:53,455 --> 00:22:56,708 and any sort of financial backing because all of us on staff, 398 00:22:56,708 --> 00:22:59,878 including our director, are volunteer-based and none of us are paid. 399 00:22:59,878 --> 00:23:02,672 - That's an incredible way to get involved. 400 00:23:02,672 --> 00:23:06,301 And that is awesome that you guys are all volunteering your time. 401 00:23:06,301 --> 00:23:10,847 You're truly giving your hearts and showing up in such a beautiful way. 402 00:23:10,847 --> 00:23:13,642 Is that something that 403 00:23:13,642 --> 00:23:17,604 men can get involved with as well, or is that just women that are advocates? 404 00:23:17,604 --> 00:23:18,563 How does that work? 405 00:23:18,563 --> 00:23:19,648 - That's a fabulous question. 406 00:23:19,648 --> 00:23:21,817 I'm so glad you asked that, Jessica. 407 00:23:21,817 --> 00:23:24,277 Many people don't think that men get trafficked 408 00:23:24,277 --> 00:23:28,281 and that they aren't sexually abused, but they are actually. 409 00:23:28,281 --> 00:23:33,870 And so, we are in need of men advocates to help with our survivors who are male. 410 00:23:33,870 --> 00:23:37,707 And we prefer to put female advocates with female victims 411 00:23:37,707 --> 00:23:39,626 and male advocates with male victims. 412 00:23:39,626 --> 00:23:43,797 And it's quite sad for us to see how many male victims 413 00:23:43,797 --> 00:23:47,217 haven't been believed, mocked almost. 414 00:23:47,217 --> 00:23:51,596 Because if you're sexually abused as a man, it's almost seen as a badge of honor. 415 00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:52,764 Like a good thing. 416 00:23:52,764 --> 00:23:55,892 When they come to us, they find 417 00:23:55,892 --> 00:23:59,438 the empathy they never had and a safe male to talk to. 418 00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:03,692 And we are always hoping and praying for more male advocates and staff members 419 00:24:03,692 --> 00:24:04,693 to join our team. 420 00:24:04,693 --> 00:24:05,610 - Well, that's good to know. 421 00:24:05,610 --> 00:24:11,575 And I think for even my guy friends that are looking for ways to get involved, 422 00:24:11,575 --> 00:24:12,993 I'm definitely going to tell them 423 00:24:12,993 --> 00:24:16,163 about Relentless Hope, that they can become an advocate 424 00:24:16,163 --> 00:24:19,291 and they actually can help support 425 00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:22,627 a man or a young man 426 00:24:22,627 --> 00:24:27,757 that has been through such horrible abuse and the healing process for them. 427 00:24:27,757 --> 00:24:28,925 - Oh, thank you so much. 428 00:24:28,925 --> 00:24:30,760 We really appreciate that. 429 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,431 And hopefully our audience will want to get involved as well. 430 00:24:34,431 --> 00:24:38,435 I think many of you are asking us all the time, “How can we get involved?” 431 00:24:38,435 --> 00:24:41,480 And so, one of my goals within 432 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,234 the podcast is to give you more ideas on how you can become 433 00:24:46,234 --> 00:24:50,197 part of the solution. Because we know what the problem is. 434 00:24:50,197 --> 00:24:53,533 Once you're leaning in and engaging in with what the problem is 435 00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:55,118 and you're willing to accept 436 00:24:55,118 --> 00:24:59,289 that this is happening here in the United States and around the world, 437 00:24:59,289 --> 00:25:01,082 ow what? 438 00:25:01,082 --> 00:25:04,794 And I bring to you Casey today because I want you to know, now what, 439 00:25:04,794 --> 00:25:05,587 whether that's - 440 00:25:05,587 --> 00:25:09,841 you get involved with Relentless Hope or you start something in your own community 441 00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:12,844 or you reach out to somebody that you know is in need, 442 00:25:12,844 --> 00:25:15,430 please get involved, be a part of the solution. 443 00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:18,433 And I truly believe you are the solution. 444 00:25:18,433 --> 00:25:22,479 It's not just those that are part of anti-trafficking organizations. 445 00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:23,313 So thank you. 446 00:25:23,313 --> 00:25:27,025 We'll be right back in just a few minutes. 447 00:25:27,776 --> 00:25:29,194 Big thanks to this week's 448 00:25:29,194 --> 00:25:33,532 sponsor, the OUR Rescue Store, for supporting the podcast. 449 00:25:33,532 --> 00:25:37,786 The OUR Rescue Store is committed to responsibly sourcing products 450 00:25:37,786 --> 00:25:41,540 that unite conversations about human trafficking, 451 00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:45,752 raising awareness, and contributing to the movement against it. 452 00:25:45,752 --> 00:25:49,714 With more than enough colors, designs, and items to choose 453 00:25:49,714 --> 00:25:52,801 from, there's definitely something for you. 454 00:25:52,801 --> 00:25:55,720 Find something you'll be proud to own, 455 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,515 and be an advocate for change. 456 00:25:58,515 --> 00:26:01,726 Visit store.ourrescue.org 457 00:26:01,726 --> 00:26:03,520 and use the promo code 458 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,898 Voices10 for 10% off your purchase. 459 00:26:06,898 --> 00:26:08,858 That's Voices10 on 460 00:26:08,858 --> 00:26:12,571 store.ourrescue.org. 461 00:26:13,154 --> 00:26:17,075 Welcome back to Voices for Freedom, an anti-trafficking podcast. 462 00:26:17,075 --> 00:26:21,371 My name is Jessica, and I'm here with Casey, who works with Relentless Hope. 463 00:26:21,371 --> 00:26:22,455 And we've been talking 464 00:26:22,455 --> 00:26:27,043 about survivors of sex trafficking and survivors of ritual abuse. 465 00:26:27,043 --> 00:26:29,921 We're going to go into a little bit of 466 00:26:29,921 --> 00:26:35,135 what happens to those that are abusing these survivors. 467 00:26:35,135 --> 00:26:39,389 And Casey, I know that you work with so many survivors, 468 00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:44,144 and oftentimes, survivors that I work with have a hard time even telling their story 469 00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:45,103 because they're worried 470 00:26:45,103 --> 00:26:49,399 that nothing will happen to the person that's been abusing them. 471 00:26:49,399 --> 00:26:54,738 In your experience, if somebody has gone through ritual abuse or sex trafficking, 472 00:26:54,738 --> 00:26:59,200 what happens to the person that has been abusing them? 473 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,580 Well, sadly, for the majority of survivors, 474 00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:07,083 if they ever have reached out for help and filled out a police report, 475 00:27:07,083 --> 00:27:11,838 or told a family member, or told a pastor, they're not believed. 476 00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:15,634 And oftentimes, we find that a lot of the 477 00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:22,223 trafficking rings have connections with law enforcement, legislatures, etc. 478 00:27:22,223 --> 00:27:27,187 And so, it can be difficult sometimes to charge these perpetrators 479 00:27:27,187 --> 00:27:30,523 because a lot of times, the perpetrators are working 480 00:27:30,523 --> 00:27:33,526 in these avenues where you're trying to get justice. 481 00:27:33,526 --> 00:27:39,157 And we feel like the more traction we get and the more survivors stand up 482 00:27:39,157 --> 00:27:42,952 and the more cases we help them with - we do help with legal advice 483 00:27:42,952 --> 00:27:46,247 and helping them start a case against their perpetrators. 484 00:27:46,247 --> 00:27:47,499 Over time, 485 00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:52,212 if you have enough evidence and enough people speaking out about the abuse, 486 00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:55,632 people will start getting charged, and justice will be served. 487 00:27:55,632 --> 00:27:59,844 But, so far, a lot of them haven't gotten the justice they've been seeking. 488 00:27:59,844 --> 00:28:02,013 So that is - part of our ministry 489 00:28:02,013 --> 00:28:06,101 is to propel this forward, not only raise awareness but to help 490 00:28:06,101 --> 00:28:10,105 all of the survivors realize that you can get justice. 491 00:28:10,105 --> 00:28:10,939 Don't give up. 492 00:28:10,939 --> 00:28:15,944 It may be hard, and there may be people involved in high-up positions 493 00:28:15,944 --> 00:28:18,988 who don't want your story to be told, but we're willing to stand up 494 00:28:18,988 --> 00:28:20,407 against the beast. 495 00:28:20,407 --> 00:28:25,662 So survivors often aren't even believed when they come forward with their stories. 496 00:28:25,662 --> 00:28:29,416 So if they're coming forward and they're actually wanting 497 00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:33,962 to do a case against their trafficker, which takes so much courage 498 00:28:33,962 --> 00:28:38,550 to come forward, to also then say, “Now I'm going to press charges.” 499 00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:43,638 What kind of evidence do they need in order to start a case? 500 00:28:43,638 --> 00:28:47,225 - We do lot of personal counseling and coaching with our survivors 501 00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:49,394 to help them build up their evidence. 502 00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:53,732 And we have a team of people who help our survivors 503 00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:56,985 in many different ways, with compiling 504 00:28:56,985 --> 00:29:01,239 medical documents, hospital documents, records, 505 00:29:01,239 --> 00:29:05,160 and just sharing their story and their testimony. 506 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,664 And lots of times, if there's one perpetrator - the average is 507 00:29:09,664 --> 00:29:14,252 that every perpetrator has about 120 to 130 survivors. 508 00:29:14,252 --> 00:29:18,298 And the more that survivors speak out, there might be other survivors 509 00:29:18,298 --> 00:29:19,424 that say, “Me too. 510 00:29:19,424 --> 00:29:20,675 They abused me too.” 511 00:29:20,675 --> 00:29:24,929 And that raises the possibility that that person will actually be charged. 512 00:29:24,929 --> 00:29:25,889 The more evidence, 513 00:29:25,889 --> 00:29:30,810 the better their chances of being believed and heard in court. 514 00:29:30,810 --> 00:29:31,436 I really 515 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:34,272 appreciate you saying that, especially the medical 516 00:29:34,272 --> 00:29:38,067 and whether that's text messages, different - 517 00:29:38,067 --> 00:29:41,988 whatever that different piece of evidence is and sharing your story 518 00:29:41,988 --> 00:29:45,784 because I think sometimes survivors are discouraged 519 00:29:45,784 --> 00:29:47,202 because they share their story, 520 00:29:47,202 --> 00:29:51,456 but then they're like, “I don't know what my evidence is.” 521 00:29:51,456 --> 00:29:53,583 Or they go to the doctor 522 00:29:53,583 --> 00:29:58,922 [and] for whatever reason, the medical staff misses that they are a victim 523 00:29:58,922 --> 00:30:02,133 of trafficking, and then they go back and they're trafficked again. 524 00:30:02,133 --> 00:30:05,512 But survivors can say, “Okay, here's my medical records 525 00:30:05,512 --> 00:30:09,432 from four years ago. Here's my medical records 526 00:30:09,432 --> 00:30:14,604 then six months later or a year later.” And they can use that 527 00:30:14,604 --> 00:30:18,691 to help with the case against the perpetrator. 528 00:30:18,691 --> 00:30:21,611 And it gives them encouragement. 529 00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:24,697 Hopefully, if a survivor is listening right now 530 00:30:24,697 --> 00:30:30,036 and you are currently being trafficked, be encouraged to go to the doctor. 531 00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:36,251 Be encouraged to continue to seek the help that you need, 532 00:30:36,251 --> 00:30:40,255 whether that's through a therapist, through different avenues, 533 00:30:40,255 --> 00:30:43,299 because that all can be compiled and, 534 00:30:43,299 --> 00:30:47,637 like you said, “Me too, I also was trafficked.” 535 00:30:47,637 --> 00:30:50,014 So Casey, 536 00:30:50,014 --> 00:30:52,642 with your message, if you were to say something 537 00:30:52,642 --> 00:30:57,188 to a survivor of ritual abuse, right now, let's say there's somebody 538 00:30:57,188 --> 00:31:01,234 that's listening right now, and he or she is in the middle of it. 539 00:31:01,234 --> 00:31:05,864 They're not yet on the other side of freedom. 540 00:31:05,864 --> 00:31:12,161 What would you say to them to encourage them to keep going and what to do? 541 00:31:12,161 --> 00:31:15,039 I would say, we believe you. 542 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,917 We are here for you. You're not alone. 543 00:31:17,917 --> 00:31:19,919 And we're ready to fight the fight with you. 544 00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:21,462 We're in it for the long haul. 545 00:31:21,462 --> 00:31:24,382 And we're not giving up, and we're not going anywhere. 546 00:31:24,382 --> 00:31:28,595 I think hearing, we believe you, and we're here, and we're fighting with you, 547 00:31:28,595 --> 00:31:31,514 and also, like you said, we're not here 548 00:31:31,514 --> 00:31:34,517 saying, “Here's three times that we get to meet, and then that's it. 549 00:31:34,517 --> 00:31:36,561 That's the end of our services.” 550 00:31:36,561 --> 00:31:38,229 You're saying, “We're here for the long haul. 551 00:31:38,229 --> 00:31:43,484 We're here to walk alongside.” And hopefully survivors that are listening right now 552 00:31:43,484 --> 00:31:47,280 will hear your message and hear your voice and hear your heart 553 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,576 that you really will show up when that phone call comes. 554 00:31:51,576 --> 00:31:56,331 - Yes. And we are fighting in so many ways for our survivors. 555 00:31:56,331 --> 00:32:00,668 Our ministry recently met with Burgess Owens, with the Human Trafficking 556 00:32:00,668 --> 00:32:06,549 Task Force here in Utah and gave them some advice and legal avenues 557 00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:09,135 we think that could help survivors better in Utah. 558 00:32:09,135 --> 00:32:13,681 And unfortunately, a bill that we were pushing to be passed 559 00:32:13,681 --> 00:32:16,976 to change the statute of limitations in Utah did not pass, 560 00:32:16,976 --> 00:32:19,479 but we're fighting for it to be passed next year. 561 00:32:19,479 --> 00:32:21,940 Because there should be no statute of limitations. 562 00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:26,945 If a survivor wants to come forward and say that someone trafficked them 563 00:32:26,945 --> 00:32:28,863 or sexually abused them ten years ago, 564 00:32:28,863 --> 00:32:32,325 there should be no law that says, “Oh, we're sorry. Six years has passed. 565 00:32:32,325 --> 00:32:33,660 They can't be charged anymore.” 566 00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:36,120 Why would a survivor want to talk anymore or get help 567 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,998 if there's no chance that their perpetrator could be charged? 568 00:32:38,998 --> 00:32:42,043 So we want that statute of limitations to be changed, 569 00:32:42,043 --> 00:32:47,590 so that whether they're 30, 40, 50, they still have time to reach out 570 00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:51,010 for justice from something that happened to them when they were children. 571 00:32:51,010 --> 00:32:56,099 If there is somebody that's listening that 572 00:32:56,099 --> 00:32:59,102 knows somebody that has been trafficked 573 00:32:59,102 --> 00:33:01,604 or has been through ritual abuse 574 00:33:01,604 --> 00:33:03,690 and they're the ones that are supporting them, 575 00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:05,650 whether that's a family member that's supporting them, 576 00:33:05,650 --> 00:33:07,151 a friend, things like that. 577 00:33:07,151 --> 00:33:11,322 What advice would you give to a support person 578 00:33:11,322 --> 00:33:14,534 that's helping somebody through their healing journey? 579 00:33:14,534 --> 00:33:16,202 Well, that's a great question. 580 00:33:16,202 --> 00:33:19,580 I think, first and foremost, to say exactly 581 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:22,625 what I just said, “I believe you. I'm here for you. 582 00:33:22,625 --> 00:33:26,254 I'm not going anywhere.” Because survivors are afraid that they're going to push away 583 00:33:26,254 --> 00:33:30,466 their friends and family when they start speaking out again about their truth. 584 00:33:30,466 --> 00:33:33,928 And people feel like, “I need to have all the answers. 585 00:33:33,928 --> 00:33:36,973 I need to be adequately equipped for survivors. 586 00:33:36,973 --> 00:33:38,349 I don't have a counseling degree. 587 00:33:38,349 --> 00:33:39,225 I'm not a lawyer.” 588 00:33:39,225 --> 00:33:41,602 No, anyone can be a support. 589 00:33:41,602 --> 00:33:45,064 Anyone can be a listening ear, and just say - send a text, 590 00:33:45,064 --> 00:33:46,232 “How are you today? 591 00:33:46,232 --> 00:33:48,067 Did you have any bad dreams last night? 592 00:33:48,067 --> 00:33:50,445 How was your counseling session? Have you been eating? 593 00:33:50,445 --> 00:33:52,655 Have you been sleeping? Do you want to go off for a walk? 594 00:33:52,655 --> 00:33:54,866 Do you want to go get something at the cafe?” 595 00:33:54,866 --> 00:34:00,204 Just being a friend, and they don't always want to talk about their actual abuse. 596 00:34:00,204 --> 00:34:03,875 They don't want to tell you the gruesome, horrific details. 597 00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:06,127 They, oftentimes, just want to know you're there for them 598 00:34:06,127 --> 00:34:10,882 when they say they had a bad night. And it's not as complicated as we think it is. 599 00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:14,635 Such great advice, Casey, and I think that - 600 00:34:14,635 --> 00:34:18,639 I remember hearing from a survivor once that sometimes 601 00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:23,019 when somebody is wanting to be an advocate for them, or a friend, or a support network, 602 00:34:23,019 --> 00:34:26,064 they want to hear the details of what they've been through. 603 00:34:26,064 --> 00:34:31,444 But it's for their own, for the advocates, like own, 604 00:34:31,444 --> 00:34:34,530 I don't know what the right word is, but their own gratification 605 00:34:34,530 --> 00:34:39,202 or their own understanding versus actually helping and supporting. 606 00:34:39,202 --> 00:34:43,456 So I think sometimes, like you're saying, don't ask about the details. 607 00:34:43,456 --> 00:34:48,544 That's not what a survivor necessarily needs is to walk through the details. 608 00:34:48,544 --> 00:34:51,089 They need somebody to say, “Let's go for a walk. 609 00:34:51,089 --> 00:34:53,049 Let's talk about 610 00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:54,842 whatever it is that's on their mind.” 611 00:34:54,842 --> 00:34:58,054 Versus, “Tell me all the details of what you've been through.” 612 00:34:58,054 --> 00:34:58,721 Exactly. 613 00:34:58,721 --> 00:35:01,933 Because a lot of times, people - you can't hide on your face 614 00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:04,060 when you're shocked with these horrific details. 615 00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:07,772 And survivors, they're sick of seeing that look on people's faces. 616 00:35:07,772 --> 00:35:10,233 The disgust, the shock, the horror. 617 00:35:10,233 --> 00:35:13,653 And so, if we don't ask then that's okay. 618 00:35:13,653 --> 00:35:15,488 You don't need to know all those details. 619 00:35:15,488 --> 00:35:17,990 But that is the blessing of having an advocate 620 00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:21,786 for those of us who have been doing this so long, there is no shock factor for us. 621 00:35:21,786 --> 00:35:24,372 There's nothing you can tell us that we haven't already heard. 622 00:35:24,372 --> 00:35:25,456 We're not going to gasp. 623 00:35:25,456 --> 00:35:29,001 We're not going to say anything that would make you feel embarrassed 624 00:35:29,001 --> 00:35:30,002 for telling us that. 625 00:35:30,002 --> 00:35:32,213 And that's the blessing of knowing your place, 626 00:35:32,213 --> 00:35:34,090 if you're a supporter or you're an advocate 627 00:35:34,090 --> 00:35:38,219 who has been equipped to walk a survivor through those traumatic memories. 628 00:35:38,219 --> 00:35:41,097 Whereas, if you're just a friend or a supporter, it's okay, 629 00:35:41,097 --> 00:35:42,098 you don't need to ask. 630 00:35:42,098 --> 00:35:45,935 And if they do decide to disclose that you can even say, “Wow, 631 00:35:45,935 --> 00:35:48,187 that's a lot to hear, but I believe you. 632 00:35:48,187 --> 00:35:51,315 Please know I believe you, and I'm sorry you went through that.” Instead of, “That's 633 00:35:51,315 --> 00:35:54,402 hard to believe, or I can't believe that happened.” 634 00:35:54,402 --> 00:35:58,531 Well thank you, Casey. I appreciate that, and I really hope that people 635 00:35:58,531 --> 00:36:02,952 that are listening will reach out to you and your organization 636 00:36:02,952 --> 00:36:07,665 because I think that they can learn more if they're that support person. 637 00:36:07,665 --> 00:36:13,087 And also people that have gone through ritual abuse and sex trafficking. 638 00:36:13,087 --> 00:36:15,882 I hope that they feel like there's hope today and that they have 639 00:36:15,882 --> 00:36:20,261 a glimpse of something else that they can hold on to. 640 00:36:21,387 --> 00:36:24,307 For those of you that are listening, thank you so much. 641 00:36:24,307 --> 00:36:28,060 We are all about bringing difficult conversations to the table. 642 00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:32,440 That's why we created a podcast, is we want to have conversations 643 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,318 that either aren't happening 644 00:36:35,318 --> 00:36:38,237 or that aren't having a light shed on them. 645 00:36:38,237 --> 00:36:42,158 And so ritual abuse and sex trafficking is something that we really want 646 00:36:42,158 --> 00:36:47,205 people to understand and to understand what it actually is and what it isn't. 647 00:36:47,205 --> 00:36:51,209 And so, I'm so grateful that Casey has come today to talk about this. 648 00:36:51,209 --> 00:36:52,460 Thank you for listening. 649 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:57,798 We know that this is a very difficult conversation and a difficult topic. 650 00:36:57,798 --> 00:37:01,219 So, take it, learn from it, grow, 651 00:37:01,219 --> 00:37:04,513 and get involved with whatever that looks like. 652 00:37:04,513 --> 00:37:07,642 And we've given you a few options of how to get involved. 653 00:37:07,642 --> 00:37:09,352 There are more ways to get involved, 654 00:37:09,352 --> 00:37:13,272 so keep listening to the podcast and you'll find out more ways. 655 00:37:13,272 --> 00:37:15,816 Have a wonderful rest of your day. 656 00:37:15,816 --> 00:37:17,026 Thanks for listening. 657 00:37:17,026 --> 00:37:18,736 Did you enjoy this episode? 658 00:37:18,736 --> 00:37:23,282 If so, please leave us a review and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. 659 00:37:23,282 --> 00:37:25,576 If you have ideas for future episodes, 660 00:37:25,576 --> 00:37:30,539 email us at voicesforFreedom@ourrescue.org. 661 00:37:30,539 --> 00:37:33,459 Lastly, we encourage you to join the fight. 662 00:37:33,459 --> 00:37:38,130 Make a difference today by donating at ourrescue.org. 663 00:37:38,130 --> 00:37:42,510 Or text PODCAST to 75004 664 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:46,472 Again, that number is 75004. 665 00:37:46,555 --> 00:37:48,683 Next week on Voices for Freedom, 666 00:37:48,683 --> 00:37:50,935 an anti-trafficking podcast. 667 00:37:50,935 --> 00:37:54,313 We will have an amazing and courageous woman. 668 00:37:54,313 --> 00:37:55,481 Her name is June. 669 00:37:55,481 --> 00:37:58,276 She is a survivor and is the chairman 670 00:37:58,276 --> 00:38:00,111 of OUR Rescue Survivor 671 00:38:00,111 --> 00:38:01,529 Advisory Board. 672 00:38:01,529 --> 00:38:04,115 She is going to share her story, how she realized 673 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:06,367 that she had been trafficked as a child. 674 00:38:06,367 --> 00:38:08,202 She is also going to share 675 00:38:08,202 --> 00:38:11,580 what it means to really be trauma informed 676 00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:13,708 and how to help other survivors. 677 00:38:13,708 --> 00:38:16,794 So join us next week, as we talk to June.