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Thank you for tuning

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in to Voices

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for Freedom,

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an anti-human

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trafficking podcast.

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We want to acknowledge

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that the content

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we discuss

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can be

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emotionally challenging

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and may evoke strong

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reactions.

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The stories

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we share often delve

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into tough subjects

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related to

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human trafficking,

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which may be difficult

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for some listeners

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to hear.

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Our goal

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is to raise awareness

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and promote

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understanding

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of the complexities

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surrounding

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human trafficking.

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Listener discretion

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is advised.

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Coming up on Voices

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for Freedom,

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an anti-trafficking

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podcast. It started in

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I think Australia,

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where

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they had identified

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a young boy

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who appeared to be Thai,

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who was

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wearing a green shirt

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and

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being sexually

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assaulted by,

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at that time,

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an unknown male.

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Thai law enforcement,

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as well

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as international

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law enforcement

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agencies,

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had kind

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of collaborated

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and identified

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an offender,

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but the victim was still

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unidentified.

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They knew they needed

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to somehow

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communicate

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with this offender

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in an

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undercover capacity

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to try to

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manipulate him

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into revealing

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who this boy was that

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they knew

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he had sexually abused

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a year or so before.

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That's why they

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reached out to us.

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And welcome

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to Voices for

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Freedom, an

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anti-trafficking

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podcast,

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brought to you

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by OUR Rescue.

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We are so excited

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with the launch

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of this series.

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We hope that

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you'll tune in each week

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to learn about

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the amazing

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men and women

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united in this cause

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to end

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child exploitation

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and human

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trafficking. In

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this episode,

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we have a real treat

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as we are going

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to hear from,

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I'll just be honest,

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one of my heroes

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who is on the front line,

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in the vanguard

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of this fight

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and he's

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coming to us live

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from Southeast Asia.

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We're going to call him

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Alex.

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Alex is his undercover

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operator name.

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I've gotten to know him

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for quite a while

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now and just

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am so impressed

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with the work he's done.

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It's very late

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night his time,

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so let's go

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more than halfway

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around the world.

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Alex, are you with us?

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Do you hear us?

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I'm with you, Matt.

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Thank you for having me.

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Great to be here.

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I appreciate it.

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So throughout

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this episode,

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we're going to talk

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and focus

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mostly on one of,

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I would say,

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the most emblematic

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and iconic cases

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that you worked and

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that we worked here

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at OUR Rescue.

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But before we start,

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please give our viewers

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and our listeners

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and supporters

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a little bit of an idea

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of your background

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in the U.S.,

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first

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as a law

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enforcement officer

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and then what

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really led you to move,

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pick up and move

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to Southeast Asia

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to really start,

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in a lot of ways,

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OUR Rescue's office

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in Thailand.

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And then of course,

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now you can talk about

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where you're coming from

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today as you've recently

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made the move.

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Thanks, Matt.

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So my

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background, prior

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to joining OUR,

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I was full time

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law enforcement.

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A little bit

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over 20 years

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in the U.S.

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The last ten years

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or so doing,

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mainly focusing on

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cyber crimes,

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crimes against children,

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human

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trafficking cases.

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I was heavily

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involved as an

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ICAC affiliate.

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ICAC is Internet Crimes

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Against Children.

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Working

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lots of kind

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of multi-jurisdictional

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cases with,

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you know,

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federal agencies,

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neighboring agencies,

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going undercover

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online, posing

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as victims, posing

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as a like-minded

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offender.

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Seeking out people

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that were

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looking to exploit,

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abuse,

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you know, and harm

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children online.

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I did that for

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a little over 20 years.

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And then,

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you know,

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as I was getting near

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the end of my career,

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there's,

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you know, still

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a lot of passion. I love,

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I love the work.

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No doubt. I can tell.

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I mean,

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even some of the

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dirtiest work ever.

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I could never do it,

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but I know

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that you're so committed

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to this.

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Yeah, it's great.

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And then,

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you know,

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I found

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OUR.

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You know,

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I don't know

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if you remember

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that first interview.

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It was a

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one-year contract.

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It was a one-year

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contract.

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I was going to step

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away for a while

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and come out and

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kind of do

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some training

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in Southeast

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Asia and train

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some law enforcement.

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And now, it seems like,

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seems like barely

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a year has gone by,

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but it's been

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more than six,

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and I'm still here.

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Well, we're so grateful

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for that.

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And, you know,

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you coming on board

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so many years ago

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was an indication

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to those of us

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in OUR Rescue

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that some of

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the operations

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we were doing,

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while effective,

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while empowering

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law enforcement,

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some of the stings,

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some of the parties

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we were doing overseas

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were not as effective

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in terms

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of really

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getting those hardened

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pedophiles,

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those child predators.

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But what you had,

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that expertise

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with Internet Crimes

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Against Children,

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on the task force,

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working in the central

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United States

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where there was a

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lot of trafficking

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and then to go overseas.

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Well, I'll

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tell you, it was

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scary stepping away

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from, you know, a 20-plus

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year

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government job

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and then kind of going

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private

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sector

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as you will.

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It was scary. Getting over,

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once I first

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got to Thailand,

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it was - I

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very quickly

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learned that

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the Thai

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authorities were

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just as

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intelligent,

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just as passionate

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as any law enforcement

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agency or officers

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I've worked with

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in the U.S.

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The issue

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there, as it is

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in most countries

303
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that I've

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worked in,

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it's budgetary issues,

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right. It's money.

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These are

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complicated

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cases.

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There's,

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you know,

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extensive technology

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involved,

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multi-jurisdictional

315
00:05:23,323 --> 00:05:24,365
issues.

316
00:05:24,365 --> 00:05:25,533
There's certifications

317
00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:26,117
and software

318
00:05:26,117 --> 00:05:26,534
and hardware

319
00:05:26,534 --> 00:05:27,327
that's needed.

320
00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:27,785
So that's what

321
00:05:27,785 --> 00:05:28,745
it was about.

322
00:05:28,745 --> 00:05:29,746
It was

323
00:05:29,746 --> 00:05:30,997
quick to see that

324
00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:31,581
that was a gap

325
00:05:31,581 --> 00:05:32,123
we could fill,

326
00:05:32,123 --> 00:05:33,124
but it's not just that.

327
00:05:33,124 --> 00:05:34,250
It's also the training.

328
00:05:34,250 --> 00:05:34,625
You know,

329
00:05:34,625 --> 00:05:35,710
I was bringing

330
00:05:35,710 --> 00:05:36,461
20-plus years

331
00:05:36,461 --> 00:05:37,754
of experience with me

332
00:05:37,754 --> 00:05:38,713
over there

333
00:05:38,713 --> 00:05:39,630
to work these

334
00:05:39,630 --> 00:05:40,423
types of cases.

335
00:05:41,591 --> 00:05:42,175
You know,

336
00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:43,092
we've talked in the

337
00:05:43,092 --> 00:05:44,635
past about how

338
00:05:44,635 --> 00:05:45,636
in the United States -

339
00:05:45,636 --> 00:05:46,179
and this is again,

340
00:05:46,179 --> 00:05:46,929
a generalization -

341
00:05:46,929 --> 00:05:47,347
but human

342
00:05:47,347 --> 00:05:48,014
trafficking, child

343
00:05:48,014 --> 00:05:48,723
exploitation

344
00:05:48,723 --> 00:05:49,640
in a lot of ways

345
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:50,767
is drug-fueled,

346
00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:52,185
drug-driven.

347
00:05:52,185 --> 00:05:53,394
And oftentimes,

348
00:05:53,394 --> 00:05:54,771
predators prey

349
00:05:54,771 --> 00:05:56,689
on vulnerabilities.

350
00:05:56,689 --> 00:05:57,648
You know, kids

351
00:05:57,648 --> 00:05:58,107
who don't have

352
00:05:58,107 --> 00:05:59,233
the love that they

353
00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:00,193
need from home,

354
00:06:00,193 --> 00:06:01,194
you know, mom and dad,

355
00:06:01,194 --> 00:06:02,111
you know, broken homes

356
00:06:02,111 --> 00:06:02,779
however.

357
00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:03,446
Talk to us

358
00:06:03,446 --> 00:06:04,489
briefly about what

359
00:06:04,489 --> 00:06:05,239
it's like in

360
00:06:05,239 --> 00:06:06,199
Southeast Asia

361
00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:06,949
with the child

362
00:06:06,949 --> 00:06:07,700
sex tourism,

363
00:06:07,700 --> 00:06:08,451
with some of the

364
00:06:08,451 --> 00:06:09,619
foreign nationals

365
00:06:09,619 --> 00:06:10,453
that you were helping

366
00:06:10,453 --> 00:06:12,705
Thai authorities target.

367
00:06:12,705 --> 00:06:12,872
Yeah,

368
00:06:12,872 --> 00:06:13,873
it's just the same.

369
00:06:13,873 --> 00:06:14,290
It's,

370
00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:14,540
you know,

371
00:06:14,540 --> 00:06:15,875
these offenders are -

372
00:06:15,875 --> 00:06:16,376
I've often

373
00:06:16,376 --> 00:06:17,126
seen in my cases

374
00:06:17,126 --> 00:06:17,627
through the years -

375
00:06:17,627 --> 00:06:18,127
are motivated

376
00:06:18,127 --> 00:06:19,629
by one of two things:

377
00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:21,005
money or

378
00:06:21,005 --> 00:06:21,881
some type of

379
00:06:21,881 --> 00:06:22,632
sexual interest

380
00:06:22,632 --> 00:06:23,091
in children

381
00:06:23,091 --> 00:06:23,925
or some combination

382
00:06:23,925 --> 00:06:24,884
of both.

383
00:06:24,884 --> 00:06:25,760
A lot of tourists

384
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,762
are coming over to

385
00:06:27,762 --> 00:06:28,388
many countries

386
00:06:28,388 --> 00:06:29,764
in Southeast Asia, where

387
00:06:29,764 --> 00:06:30,640
there are

388
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:31,641
many local people

389
00:06:31,641 --> 00:06:32,392
that are

390
00:06:32,392 --> 00:06:33,101
victims

391
00:06:33,101 --> 00:06:33,810
of the economy,

392
00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:35,353
that are in dire

393
00:06:35,353 --> 00:06:36,729
need of

394
00:06:36,729 --> 00:06:37,730
any type

395
00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:38,314
of assistance

396
00:06:38,314 --> 00:06:39,232
they can be.

397
00:06:39,232 --> 00:06:39,816
And it does

398
00:06:39,816 --> 00:06:40,817
not take long

399
00:06:40,817 --> 00:06:41,734
for an experienced

400
00:06:41,734 --> 00:06:42,568
offender

401
00:06:42,568 --> 00:06:44,112
to zoom in

402
00:06:44,112 --> 00:06:44,529
on that

403
00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:45,071
and really

404
00:06:45,071 --> 00:06:45,947
start grooming,

405
00:06:45,947 --> 00:06:46,572
not just grooming

406
00:06:46,572 --> 00:06:47,031
children, but

407
00:06:47,031 --> 00:06:47,907
grooming their parents

408
00:06:47,907 --> 00:06:49,450
to allow access to them.

409
00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:50,701
You know,

410
00:06:50,701 --> 00:06:51,452
I've seen, in the

411
00:06:51,452 --> 00:06:52,120
20 years

412
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:52,662
I've been doing it

413
00:06:52,662 --> 00:06:53,287
and then especially

414
00:06:53,287 --> 00:06:54,831
the last six years here,

415
00:06:54,831 --> 00:06:56,332
I want to say

416
00:06:56,332 --> 00:06:57,417
I think I've seen

417
00:06:57,417 --> 00:06:58,584
every possible way

418
00:06:58,584 --> 00:06:59,043
somebody could

419
00:06:59,043 --> 00:07:00,044
be exploited.

420
00:07:00,044 --> 00:07:00,795
And just when I start

421
00:07:00,795 --> 00:07:01,504
thinking that,

422
00:07:01,504 --> 00:07:01,838
you know,

423
00:07:01,838 --> 00:07:03,589
something new comes up.

424
00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:04,257
Yeah.

425
00:07:04,257 --> 00:07:04,799
I mean, I

426
00:07:04,799 --> 00:07:05,633
can't even imagine

427
00:07:05,633 --> 00:07:06,467
what you go through

428
00:07:06,467 --> 00:07:07,051
and what you see

429
00:07:07,051 --> 00:07:08,094
every day.

430
00:07:08,094 --> 00:07:08,428
I know

431
00:07:08,428 --> 00:07:09,595
a lot of our supporters

432
00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:10,847
are wondering

433
00:07:10,847 --> 00:07:12,348
how you do your job,

434
00:07:12,348 --> 00:07:13,182
how you

435
00:07:13,182 --> 00:07:14,517
essentially trick

436
00:07:14,517 --> 00:07:15,685
these predators,

437
00:07:15,685 --> 00:07:16,853
pedophiles, traffickers,

438
00:07:16,853 --> 00:07:17,353
how you gain

439
00:07:17,353 --> 00:07:18,479
their confidence.

440
00:07:18,479 --> 00:07:18,896
So would you

441
00:07:18,896 --> 00:07:19,355
mind talking

442
00:07:19,355 --> 00:07:20,106
a little bit about that

443
00:07:20,106 --> 00:07:22,024
and perhaps using

444
00:07:22,024 --> 00:07:23,276
one of, as I mentioned,

445
00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:23,776
the most sort of

446
00:07:23,776 --> 00:07:25,695
iconic, emblematic cases.

447
00:07:25,695 --> 00:07:26,654
Some of our supporters

448
00:07:26,654 --> 00:07:27,029
will know it

449
00:07:27,029 --> 00:07:27,655
as the "Boy

450
00:07:27,655 --> 00:07:28,698
in the Green Shirt."

451
00:07:28,698 --> 00:07:29,574
I know you have other op

452
00:07:29,574 --> 00:07:30,199
names for it,

453
00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:31,409
but maybe if you would,

454
00:07:31,409 --> 00:07:31,909
walk us

455
00:07:31,909 --> 00:07:33,369
through that of how

456
00:07:33,369 --> 00:07:33,953
you have

457
00:07:33,953 --> 00:07:34,996
the online persona,

458
00:07:34,996 --> 00:07:35,621
how you go

459
00:07:35,621 --> 00:07:36,831
and find these targets,

460
00:07:36,831 --> 00:07:37,457
and perhaps

461
00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:38,749
using this case

462
00:07:38,749 --> 00:07:40,543
as an example.

463
00:07:40,543 --> 00:07:40,877
Sure.

464
00:07:40,877 --> 00:07:41,419
This was,

465
00:07:41,419 --> 00:07:41,794
This was an

466
00:07:41,794 --> 00:07:42,587
interesting case.

467
00:07:42,587 --> 00:07:43,337
This was an

468
00:07:44,380 --> 00:07:45,798
international case.

469
00:07:45,798 --> 00:07:47,800
It started in

470
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,343
I think Australia,

471
00:07:49,343 --> 00:07:49,802
where

472
00:07:49,802 --> 00:07:50,595
they had identified

473
00:07:50,595 --> 00:07:51,179
a young boy

474
00:07:51,179 --> 00:07:52,138
who appeared to be Thai,

475
00:07:52,138 --> 00:07:53,014
who was

476
00:07:53,014 --> 00:07:54,056
wearing a green shirt

477
00:07:54,056 --> 00:07:54,307
and

478
00:07:54,307 --> 00:07:54,891
being sexually

479
00:07:54,891 --> 00:07:55,850
assaulted by,

480
00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:56,350
at that time,

481
00:07:56,350 --> 00:07:57,852
an unknown male.

482
00:07:57,852 --> 00:07:58,978
Thai law enforcement

483
00:07:58,978 --> 00:08:00,146
as well

484
00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:01,814
as international

485
00:08:01,814 --> 00:08:03,399
law enforcement

486
00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:04,066
agencies

487
00:08:04,066 --> 00:08:04,442
had kind

488
00:08:04,442 --> 00:08:05,401
of collaborated

489
00:08:05,401 --> 00:08:05,985
and identified

490
00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:06,736
an offender,

491
00:08:06,736 --> 00:08:08,613
but the victim was still

492
00:08:08,613 --> 00:08:10,239
unidentified.

493
00:08:10,239 --> 00:08:11,657
One of the services

494
00:08:11,657 --> 00:08:13,493
we offer law enforcement

495
00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:14,243
here in Southeast

496
00:08:14,243 --> 00:08:14,660
Asia is

497
00:08:14,660 --> 00:08:15,912
investigative support.

498
00:08:15,912 --> 00:08:17,079
We have a lot of - it's

499
00:08:17,079 --> 00:08:18,581
not just creating a fake

500
00:08:18,581 --> 00:08:19,290
Facebook page,

501
00:08:19,290 --> 00:08:19,790
trying to talk

502
00:08:19,790 --> 00:08:20,583
to somebody.

503
00:08:20,583 --> 00:08:21,417
There's a lot of work

504
00:08:21,417 --> 00:08:21,751
that goes

505
00:08:21,751 --> 00:08:22,293
into these types

506
00:08:22,293 --> 00:08:22,710
of cases.

507
00:08:22,710 --> 00:08:22,877
There's

508
00:08:22,877 --> 00:08:23,794
a lot of maintenance

509
00:08:23,794 --> 00:08:24,170
on these

510
00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:25,546
undercover accounts

511
00:08:25,546 --> 00:08:25,796
and these

512
00:08:25,796 --> 00:08:27,006
anonymous accounts and

513
00:08:27,006 --> 00:08:27,798
they're not something

514
00:08:27,798 --> 00:08:28,591
you can create,

515
00:08:28,591 --> 00:08:29,759
you know, very quickly

516
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:30,676
and make them

517
00:08:30,676 --> 00:08:31,594
look believable.

518
00:08:31,594 --> 00:08:32,887
We have,

519
00:08:32,887 --> 00:08:33,721
we have a lot

520
00:08:33,721 --> 00:08:34,680
of experience behind us.

521
00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:35,556
We have a pretty

522
00:08:35,556 --> 00:08:36,557
robust team

523
00:08:36,557 --> 00:08:37,308
of investigators

524
00:08:37,308 --> 00:08:38,017
that are constantly

525
00:08:38,017 --> 00:08:39,101
seasoning those accounts

526
00:08:39,101 --> 00:08:40,353
and maintaining those.

527
00:08:40,353 --> 00:08:41,479
So when they knew

528
00:08:41,479 --> 00:08:42,855
they needed to somehow

529
00:08:42,855 --> 00:08:43,397
communicate

530
00:08:43,397 --> 00:08:44,524
with this offender

531
00:08:44,524 --> 00:08:44,774
in an

532
00:08:44,774 --> 00:08:45,942
undercover capacity

533
00:08:45,942 --> 00:08:47,026
to try to

534
00:08:47,026 --> 00:08:47,777
manipulate him

535
00:08:47,777 --> 00:08:48,528
into revealing

536
00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:49,695
who this boy was that

537
00:08:49,695 --> 00:08:50,863
they knew

538
00:08:50,863 --> 00:08:52,615
he had sexually abused

539
00:08:52,615 --> 00:08:55,034
a year or so before.

540
00:08:55,034 --> 00:08:55,326
That's why

541
00:08:55,326 --> 00:08:57,119
they reached out to us.

542
00:08:57,119 --> 00:08:57,828
And again,

543
00:08:57,828 --> 00:08:59,664
just to emphasize

544
00:08:59,664 --> 00:09:00,373
for listeners,

545
00:09:00,373 --> 00:09:02,250
the age of this boy,

546
00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:03,042
more or less,

547
00:09:03,042 --> 00:09:03,668
what did 

548
00:09:03,668 --> 00:09:04,043
law

549
00:09:04,043 --> 00:09:04,794
enforcement think?

550
00:09:04,794 --> 00:09:05,545
What did you think

551
00:09:05,545 --> 00:09:06,337
we were talking about?

552
00:09:06,337 --> 00:09:07,672
How old?

553
00:09:07,672 --> 00:09:08,673
At the time,

554
00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:11,551
about six or seven years old.

555
00:09:11,551 --> 00:09:12,218
So one of the things

556
00:09:12,218 --> 00:09:12,552
we did

557
00:09:12,552 --> 00:09:14,345
is, looked

558
00:09:14,345 --> 00:09:16,347
at the offender's

559
00:09:16,347 --> 00:09:17,682
online footprint.

560
00:09:17,682 --> 00:09:18,558
We have

561
00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:19,934
remarkable access

562
00:09:19,934 --> 00:09:21,352
to law enforcement in

563
00:09:21,352 --> 00:09:22,103
multiple countries

564
00:09:22,103 --> 00:09:23,229
here in Southeast Asia.

565
00:09:23,229 --> 00:09:24,063
We work very closely

566
00:09:24,063 --> 00:09:24,647
with them.

567
00:09:24,647 --> 00:09:25,648
I'm very much aware

568
00:09:25,648 --> 00:09:26,482
I'm a retired law

569
00:09:26,482 --> 00:09:27,191
enforcement officer.

570
00:09:27,191 --> 00:09:28,192
I have no arrest powers,

571
00:09:28,192 --> 00:09:29,360
no arrest authority.

572
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:30,111
We work under

573
00:09:30,111 --> 00:09:31,237
the supervision and

574
00:09:31,237 --> 00:09:31,779
the purview of

575
00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:33,030
of local law enforcement

576
00:09:33,030 --> 00:09:33,322
here.

577
00:09:33,322 --> 00:09:34,407
And oftentimes,

578
00:09:34,407 --> 00:09:34,907
they'll ask us

579
00:09:34,907 --> 00:09:35,825
to come in

580
00:09:35,825 --> 00:09:36,450
and kind of

581
00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:38,077
consult on cases

582
00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:39,745
in areas

583
00:09:39,745 --> 00:09:40,288
where they lack,

584
00:09:40,288 --> 00:09:40,913
and certainly

585
00:09:40,913 --> 00:09:41,956
at that time,

586
00:09:41,956 --> 00:09:44,250
on online, undercover

587
00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,085
investigations,

588
00:09:46,085 --> 00:09:46,794
they needed

589
00:09:46,794 --> 00:09:47,378
some assistance.

590
00:09:47,378 --> 00:09:48,879
So we came in,

591
00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:49,255
looked at

592
00:09:49,255 --> 00:09:50,506
this offender's online

593
00:09:50,506 --> 00:09:51,340
footprint, looked at

594
00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:51,716
what sites

595
00:09:51,716 --> 00:09:52,133
he was on,

596
00:09:52,133 --> 00:09:52,758
what social media

597
00:09:52,758 --> 00:09:53,467
he used,

598
00:09:53,467 --> 00:09:54,385
where he communicated,

599
00:09:54,385 --> 00:09:55,469
how he communicated,

600
00:09:55,469 --> 00:09:55,970
what he did

601
00:09:55,970 --> 00:09:56,804
for a living.

602
00:09:56,804 --> 00:09:58,639
And the goal is to

603
00:09:58,639 --> 00:09:59,849
somehow integrate

604
00:09:59,849 --> 00:10:00,266
into the life

605
00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:01,225
of the offender

606
00:10:01,225 --> 00:10:02,143
without the offender

607
00:10:03,102 --> 00:10:04,270
raising suspicion.

608
00:10:04,270 --> 00:10:05,021
Because in this case,

609
00:10:05,021 --> 00:10:05,646
it was unique,

610
00:10:05,646 --> 00:10:07,148
where we already knew

611
00:10:07,148 --> 00:10:08,357
an offense had happened.

612
00:10:08,357 --> 00:10:08,941
All we needed to

613
00:10:08,941 --> 00:10:10,026
do was build trust

614
00:10:10,026 --> 00:10:10,443
and rapport

615
00:10:10,443 --> 00:10:10,985
with this offender

616
00:10:10,985 --> 00:10:12,278
to kind of

617
00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:13,237
get him to allow us

618
00:10:13,237 --> 00:10:14,447
access to his

619
00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:16,198
online life

620
00:10:16,198 --> 00:10:16,616
so we could

621
00:10:16,616 --> 00:10:17,408
hopefully track down

622
00:10:17,408 --> 00:10:18,409
this victim.

623
00:10:18,409 --> 00:10:18,618
Yeah,

624
00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:19,285
and a couple things

625
00:10:19,285 --> 00:10:19,785
come to mind

626
00:10:19,785 --> 00:10:20,620
based on what you said.

627
00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:20,786
You know,

628
00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:21,454
first and foremost,

629
00:10:21,454 --> 00:10:21,912
as you mentioned,

630
00:10:21,912 --> 00:10:23,205
we have no arrest

631
00:10:23,205 --> 00:10:23,831
authority.

632
00:10:23,831 --> 00:10:24,999
And oftentimes,

633
00:10:24,999 --> 00:10:25,207
you know,

634
00:10:25,207 --> 00:10:25,833
people ask well,

635
00:10:25,833 --> 00:10:26,709
"Is OUR Rescue -

636
00:10:26,709 --> 00:10:27,084
are you guys a

637
00:10:27,084 --> 00:10:27,793
vigilante

638
00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:28,586
organization?"

639
00:10:28,586 --> 00:10:29,337
And absolutely

640
00:10:29,337 --> 00:10:30,671
not, have never been.

641
00:10:30,671 --> 00:10:31,922
We only work

642
00:10:31,922 --> 00:10:32,923
with the green light

643
00:10:32,923 --> 00:10:33,341
of host

644
00:10:33,341 --> 00:10:34,508
country authorities.

645
00:10:34,508 --> 00:10:35,384
In this case, with,

646
00:10:35,384 --> 00:10:36,344
you know, Thailand,

647
00:10:36,344 --> 00:10:37,261
now where you are

648
00:10:37,261 --> 00:10:38,095
in, you know, Malaysia

649
00:10:38,095 --> 00:10:39,347
in Southeast Asia.

650
00:10:39,347 --> 00:10:40,431
So that's important.

651
00:10:40,431 --> 00:10:41,140
Secondly, talk

652
00:10:41,140 --> 00:10:41,724
about access

653
00:10:41,724 --> 00:10:42,767
to law enforcement.

654
00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:43,809
Now, do you have access

655
00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:44,060
to law

656
00:10:44,060 --> 00:10:45,311
enforcement databases

657
00:10:45,311 --> 00:10:45,978
or information,

658
00:10:45,978 --> 00:10:46,896
or is this purely

659
00:10:46,896 --> 00:10:47,438
what we call

660
00:10:47,438 --> 00:10:48,481
OSINT,

661
00:10:48,481 --> 00:10:49,690
open-source intelligence

662
00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:50,608
and online

663
00:10:50,608 --> 00:10:51,609
media profiles?

664
00:10:51,609 --> 00:10:52,151
Is that -

665
00:10:52,151 --> 00:10:52,735
are you

666
00:10:52,735 --> 00:10:53,486
purely doing that,

667
00:10:53,486 --> 00:10:53,861
or do you have

668
00:10:53,861 --> 00:10:54,612
any access

669
00:10:54,612 --> 00:10:55,446
to some

670
00:10:55,446 --> 00:10:56,113
of the information

671
00:10:56,113 --> 00:10:56,822
that perhaps only

672
00:10:56,822 --> 00:10:58,491
law enforcement has?

673
00:10:58,491 --> 00:10:59,367
Yeah, no access to

674
00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:00,076
law enforcement

675
00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:01,243
databases.

676
00:11:01,243 --> 00:11:04,205
So OSINT, open-source

677
00:11:04,747 --> 00:11:07,667
intel, which is mainly

678
00:11:07,667 --> 00:11:08,834
social media,

679
00:11:08,834 --> 00:11:10,002
some websites,

680
00:11:10,002 --> 00:11:10,378
and just,

681
00:11:10,378 --> 00:11:10,920
you know, looking

682
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:11,712
at, you know,

683
00:11:11,712 --> 00:11:12,880
each person's

684
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:13,631
online footprint's

685
00:11:13,631 --> 00:11:14,799
a little bit different,

686
00:11:14,799 --> 00:11:15,341
but just looking

687
00:11:15,341 --> 00:11:16,092
at where this person

688
00:11:16,092 --> 00:11:17,218
is already present

689
00:11:17,218 --> 00:11:18,344
and then looking at ways

690
00:11:18,344 --> 00:11:18,761
we can kind of,

691
00:11:18,761 --> 00:11:19,595
again, integrate

692
00:11:19,595 --> 00:11:20,930
into that life,

693
00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:21,514
without raising

694
00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:22,181
any suspicions

695
00:11:22,181 --> 00:11:23,057
and at least

696
00:11:23,057 --> 00:11:24,350
get him to trust us.

697
00:11:24,350 --> 00:11:25,309
And hopefully,

698
00:11:25,309 --> 00:11:26,102
at some point,

699
00:11:26,102 --> 00:11:27,103
think we're like-minded

700
00:11:27,103 --> 00:11:27,520
and start

701
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:28,396
sharing and bragging

702
00:11:28,396 --> 00:11:29,313
about some things

703
00:11:29,313 --> 00:11:29,980
that he may

704
00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:31,440
have done in the past.

705
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:31,816
Well that's

706
00:11:31,816 --> 00:11:32,525
an excellent way

707
00:11:32,525 --> 00:11:33,359
to tee up then

708
00:11:33,359 --> 00:11:34,735
for our next segment.

709
00:11:34,735 --> 00:11:35,236
We're going

710
00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:36,445
to talk about

711
00:11:36,445 --> 00:11:37,530
how you did

712
00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:38,531
find information

713
00:11:38,531 --> 00:11:39,949
about this suspected

714
00:11:39,949 --> 00:11:41,534
predator's likes

715
00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:43,035
and how you really went

716
00:11:43,035 --> 00:11:44,829
above and beyond to

717
00:11:44,829 --> 00:11:45,454
learn

718
00:11:45,454 --> 00:11:46,330
about what he liked

719
00:11:46,330 --> 00:11:46,539
and to

720
00:11:46,539 --> 00:11:47,415
ingratiate yourself

721
00:11:47,415 --> 00:11:47,790
with him

722
00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:48,749
to gain his trust

723
00:11:48,749 --> 00:11:49,208
and move forward.

724
00:11:49,208 --> 00:11:50,751
It's a crazy operation.

725
00:11:50,751 --> 00:11:52,336
Even a few years now

726
00:11:52,336 --> 00:11:52,878
passed

727
00:11:52,878 --> 00:11:53,796
and I look forward

728
00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:54,422
to hearing

729
00:11:54,422 --> 00:11:55,089
more about it.

730
00:11:55,089 --> 00:11:55,965
And I know that

731
00:11:55,965 --> 00:11:56,465
our viewers

732
00:11:56,465 --> 00:11:56,966
will as well.

733
00:11:56,966 --> 00:11:57,591
So please

734
00:11:57,591 --> 00:11:58,718
do not go anywhere.

735
00:11:58,718 --> 00:12:00,010
We will be right back

736
00:12:00,010 --> 00:12:01,595
with Voices for Freedom,

737
00:12:01,595 --> 00:12:02,179
an anti-trafficking

738
00:12:02,179 --> 00:12:03,556
podcast,

739
00:12:03,556 --> 00:12:04,014
brought to you

740
00:12:04,014 --> 00:12:04,849
by OUR Rescue.

741
00:12:07,476 --> 00:12:08,561
I want to thank today's

742
00:12:08,561 --> 00:12:09,311
sponsor, the

743
00:12:09,311 --> 00:12:10,563
OUR Rescue Store,

744
00:12:10,563 --> 00:12:11,272
for supporting

745
00:12:11,272 --> 00:12:12,523
this podcast.

746
00:12:12,523 --> 00:12:13,190
Did you know the

747
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:14,108
OUR Rescue Store

748
00:12:14,108 --> 00:12:14,984
features survivor-made

749
00:12:14,984 --> 00:12:15,943
items?

750
00:12:15,943 --> 00:12:17,319
In this critical fight,

751
00:12:17,319 --> 00:12:17,945
they serve

752
00:12:17,945 --> 00:12:19,530
as symbols of hope.

753
00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:20,239
By choosing

754
00:12:20,239 --> 00:12:21,490
to purchase one of these

755
00:12:21,490 --> 00:12:22,116
beautifully

756
00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:23,451
handcrafted items,

757
00:12:23,451 --> 00:12:24,326
you will impact

758
00:12:24,326 --> 00:12:24,910
the healing

759
00:12:24,910 --> 00:12:26,162
journey of survivors

760
00:12:26,162 --> 00:12:27,538
and help them reclaim

761
00:12:27,538 --> 00:12:28,164
their lives

762
00:12:28,164 --> 00:12:29,373
in the process.

763
00:12:29,373 --> 00:12:30,332
We encourage you

764
00:12:30,332 --> 00:12:30,791
to shop

765
00:12:30,791 --> 00:12:32,168
survivor-made items

766
00:12:32,168 --> 00:12:32,460
on the

767
00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:34,128
OUR Rescue website.

768
00:12:34,128 --> 00:12:34,837
It might only be a

769
00:12:34,837 --> 00:12:36,005
few dollars to you,

770
00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:36,714
but it makes a

771
00:12:36,714 --> 00:12:37,715
world of difference

772
00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:39,008
to them.

773
00:12:39,008 --> 00:12:39,925
And, in case you need

774
00:12:39,925 --> 00:12:41,635
any extra motivation,

775
00:12:41,635 --> 00:12:42,928
use promo code

776
00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:45,431
Voices10 for 10% off

777
00:12:45,431 --> 00:12:46,432
your purchase

778
00:12:46,432 --> 00:12:47,683
at

779
00:12:47,683 --> 00:12:49,435
store.ourrescue.org.

780
00:12:49,435 --> 00:12:50,227
That's Voices10

781
00:12:50,227 --> 00:12:51,687
at

782
00:12:51,687 --> 00:12:54,690
store.ourrescue.org.

783
00:12:55,065 --> 00:12:56,025
And welcome back

784
00:12:56,025 --> 00:12:56,692
to Voices

785
00:12:56,692 --> 00:12:57,276
for freedom,

786
00:12:57,276 --> 00:12:58,402
an anti-trafficking

787
00:12:58,402 --> 00:12:58,944
podcast,

788
00:12:58,944 --> 00:12:59,361
brought to you

789
00:12:59,361 --> 00:13:00,488
by OUR Rescue.

790
00:13:00,488 --> 00:13:01,489
I'm Matt Osborne,

791
00:13:01,489 --> 00:13:02,448
global ambassador

792
00:13:02,448 --> 00:13:03,199
for operations

793
00:13:03,199 --> 00:13:03,949
and education.

794
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:04,992
And so excited

795
00:13:04,992 --> 00:13:05,993
about being able

796
00:13:05,993 --> 00:13:07,286
to bring this

797
00:13:07,286 --> 00:13:08,746
podcast series to you

798
00:13:08,746 --> 00:13:09,872
along with my co-host,

799
00:13:09,872 --> 00:13:10,915
Jessica Mass,

800
00:13:10,915 --> 00:13:11,499
whom you'll see

801
00:13:11,499 --> 00:13:12,374
from time to time

802
00:13:12,374 --> 00:13:12,708
on these

803
00:13:12,708 --> 00:13:13,918
episodes as well.

804
00:13:13,918 --> 00:13:14,418
But today,

805
00:13:14,418 --> 00:13:15,336
we have the privilege

806
00:13:15,336 --> 00:13:16,712
of going all the way

807
00:13:16,712 --> 00:13:17,755
to Southeast Asia

808
00:13:17,755 --> 00:13:18,172
to talk

809
00:13:18,172 --> 00:13:19,131
to our undercover

810
00:13:19,131 --> 00:13:19,673
operator,

811
00:13:19,673 --> 00:13:21,091
codenamed "Alex."

812
00:13:21,091 --> 00:13:21,926
In the first segment,

813
00:13:21,926 --> 00:13:22,718
Alex talked to us

814
00:13:22,718 --> 00:13:23,093
a little bit

815
00:13:23,093 --> 00:13:23,928
about his

816
00:13:23,928 --> 00:13:24,637
previous career

817
00:13:24,637 --> 00:13:25,304
in the U.S.

818
00:13:25,304 --> 00:13:26,347
as an ICAC,

819
00:13:26,347 --> 00:13:27,014
Internet Crimes

820
00:13:27,014 --> 00:13:27,765
Against Children,

821
00:13:27,765 --> 00:13:28,933
investigator,

822
00:13:28,933 --> 00:13:29,934
undercover,

823
00:13:29,934 --> 00:13:30,726
creating online

824
00:13:30,726 --> 00:13:31,644
profiles.

825
00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:32,520
And then his,

826
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:33,771
I would say, bravery, as

827
00:13:33,771 --> 00:13:34,271
I've known him

828
00:13:34,271 --> 00:13:34,688
for a while,

829
00:13:34,688 --> 00:13:36,106
to take a leap of faith

830
00:13:36,106 --> 00:13:36,607
to go over

831
00:13:36,607 --> 00:13:37,525
to Southeast Asia

832
00:13:37,525 --> 00:13:38,901
and to build,

833
00:13:38,901 --> 00:13:39,276
to help

834
00:13:39,276 --> 00:13:40,152
build our

835
00:13:40,152 --> 00:13:40,945
Thai office

836
00:13:40,945 --> 00:13:42,029
for OUR Rescue.

837
00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:43,113
Alex is talking

838
00:13:43,113 --> 00:13:44,198
to us about

839
00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:45,574
the famous, infamous

840
00:13:45,574 --> 00:13:46,617
case of the "Boy

841
00:13:46,617 --> 00:13:47,952
in the Green Shirt,"

842
00:13:47,952 --> 00:13:49,161
how law enforcement

843
00:13:49,161 --> 00:13:52,164
agencies provided him -

844
00:13:52,289 --> 00:13:52,915
all he had was

845
00:13:52,915 --> 00:13:53,999
some photographs, right?

846
00:13:53,999 --> 00:13:54,792
Maybe even some videos.

847
00:13:54,792 --> 00:13:55,084
Something

848
00:13:55,084 --> 00:13:55,584
where they knew

849
00:13:55,584 --> 00:13:56,252
that a small

850
00:13:56,252 --> 00:13:57,002
boy of five,

851
00:13:57,002 --> 00:13:57,878
six, seven years old

852
00:13:57,878 --> 00:13:58,212
was being

853
00:13:58,212 --> 00:13:59,338
sexually abused.

854
00:13:59,338 --> 00:14:00,130
And Alex,

855
00:14:00,130 --> 00:14:00,589
is it true

856
00:14:00,589 --> 00:14:01,507
that law enforcement

857
00:14:01,507 --> 00:14:02,758
gave you a probable

858
00:14:02,758 --> 00:14:03,342
first name

859
00:14:03,342 --> 00:14:04,635
and last name identity?

860
00:14:04,635 --> 00:14:05,135
That was all

861
00:14:05,135 --> 00:14:06,011
you had to go on along

862
00:14:06,011 --> 00:14:06,971
with these images?

863
00:14:06,971 --> 00:14:08,556
And then walk us through

864
00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:10,599
how you used only

865
00:14:10,599 --> 00:14:11,517
open-source information,

866
00:14:11,517 --> 00:14:12,351
only things

867
00:14:12,351 --> 00:14:12,560
that were

868
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:13,602
publicly available

869
00:14:13,602 --> 00:14:14,603
of what this suspect

870
00:14:14,603 --> 00:14:15,813
was putting out online,

871
00:14:15,813 --> 00:14:16,981
and other investigation

872
00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:18,065
techniques and tactics

873
00:14:18,065 --> 00:14:19,233
you were able to use

874
00:14:19,233 --> 00:14:20,943
to ingratiate yourself

875
00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:21,944
with this individual,

876
00:14:21,944 --> 00:14:23,112
find what he liked,

877
00:14:23,112 --> 00:14:24,196
and ultimately

878
00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:25,155
gain his trust

879
00:14:25,155 --> 00:14:25,656
that allowed

880
00:14:25,656 --> 00:14:26,532
this investigation

881
00:14:26,532 --> 00:14:27,366
to move forward.

882
00:14:28,492 --> 00:14:28,742
Sure.

883
00:14:28,742 --> 00:14:29,577
So no details

884
00:14:29,577 --> 00:14:30,077
on the victim

885
00:14:30,077 --> 00:14:30,911
from law enforcement

886
00:14:30,911 --> 00:14:31,829
other than

887
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:32,371
some pretty good

888
00:14:32,371 --> 00:14:33,330
facial shots.

889
00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:33,914
So we were

890
00:14:33,914 --> 00:14:34,456
able to see him

891
00:14:34,456 --> 00:14:35,791
very, very well.

892
00:14:35,791 --> 00:14:37,126
Just no identifiers.

893
00:14:37,126 --> 00:14:37,835
We did have first

894
00:14:37,835 --> 00:14:38,127
and last

895
00:14:38,127 --> 00:14:39,253
name of the offender

896
00:14:39,253 --> 00:14:41,338
who had,

897
00:14:41,338 --> 00:14:42,006
is visible

898
00:14:42,006 --> 00:14:43,632
in some of the imagery.

899
00:14:43,632 --> 00:14:44,758
Law enforcement

900
00:14:44,758 --> 00:14:46,343
was able to identify him

901
00:14:46,343 --> 00:14:48,596
through some

902
00:14:48,596 --> 00:14:49,638
unique tattoos

903
00:14:49,638 --> 00:14:50,431
that were on his hand

904
00:14:50,431 --> 00:14:50,890
and other parts

905
00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,016
of his body.

906
00:14:52,016 --> 00:14:53,225
So we were able to -

907
00:14:53,225 --> 00:14:53,517
at least

908
00:14:53,517 --> 00:14:54,518
we had a starting point

909
00:14:54,518 --> 00:14:54,894
of somebody

910
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:55,853
we needed to start with

911
00:14:55,853 --> 00:14:56,687
to try to

912
00:14:56,687 --> 00:14:58,439
gain access to their life.

913
00:14:58,439 --> 00:14:59,398
As we started that,

914
00:14:59,398 --> 00:15:00,065
one of the first things

915
00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:00,482
we'll do

916
00:15:00,482 --> 00:15:01,233
is, you know,

917
00:15:01,233 --> 00:15:01,775
we talked about

918
00:15:01,775 --> 00:15:02,401
in the first segment,

919
00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:03,027
is start looking

920
00:15:03,027 --> 00:15:03,235
at their

921
00:15:03,235 --> 00:15:04,361
online footprint.

922
00:15:04,361 --> 00:15:05,195
What social media

923
00:15:05,195 --> 00:15:06,071
are they using?

924
00:15:06,071 --> 00:15:06,739
What websites

925
00:15:06,739 --> 00:15:07,197
are they using?

926
00:15:07,197 --> 00:15:08,198
Where do they work?

927
00:15:08,198 --> 00:15:08,949
Where are they living?

928
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:09,825
Just basic stuff

929
00:15:09,825 --> 00:15:10,409
that you can learn

930
00:15:10,409 --> 00:15:11,952
from somebody

931
00:15:11,952 --> 00:15:13,162
by monitoring somebody's

932
00:15:13,162 --> 00:15:14,413
social media account.

933
00:15:14,413 --> 00:15:15,456
Once we got his first

934
00:15:15,456 --> 00:15:15,956
and last name,

935
00:15:15,956 --> 00:15:16,790
it didn't take long

936
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:18,083
to find social media.

937
00:15:18,083 --> 00:15:18,459
And then just

938
00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:19,877
kind of zero in on him

939
00:15:19,877 --> 00:15:20,753
after that.

940
00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:21,462
You know, one thing,

941
00:15:21,462 --> 00:15:22,087
just real quick

942
00:15:22,087 --> 00:15:22,755
and sorry to interrupt,

943
00:15:22,755 --> 00:15:23,589
but it's just fascinating

944
00:15:23,589 --> 00:15:24,590
because I hear

945
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:25,633
sort of a contrast

946
00:15:25,633 --> 00:15:26,842
in what you're saying.

947
00:15:26,842 --> 00:15:27,843
The perpetrator,

948
00:15:27,843 --> 00:15:28,844
suspected perpetrator,

949
00:15:28,844 --> 00:15:29,720
at this point appeared

950
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,263
to take pains

951
00:15:31,263 --> 00:15:32,765
to hide his identity,

952
00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:33,223
correct?

953
00:15:33,223 --> 00:15:34,308
In terms of his face

954
00:15:34,308 --> 00:15:34,850
and obviously

955
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:35,601
the tattoos

956
00:15:35,601 --> 00:15:36,310
that you see.

957
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:37,686
So he was hiding that.

958
00:15:37,686 --> 00:15:39,021
And yet, it was amazing,

959
00:15:39,021 --> 00:15:39,480
wasn't it?

960
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:40,522
How much, wittingly

961
00:15:40,522 --> 00:15:41,148
or unwittingly,

962
00:15:41,148 --> 00:15:41,523
he was

963
00:15:41,523 --> 00:15:42,983
putting out online,

964
00:15:42,983 --> 00:15:43,901
which is a good reminder

965
00:15:43,901 --> 00:15:44,985
for all of us, correct?

966
00:15:44,985 --> 00:15:46,111
On our social media,

967
00:15:46,111 --> 00:15:47,029
everything we put out,

968
00:15:47,029 --> 00:15:48,614
that nothing is secret

969
00:15:48,614 --> 00:15:49,365
and that someone

970
00:15:49,365 --> 00:15:50,032
could find out

971
00:15:50,032 --> 00:15:51,951
information about us.

972
00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:52,576
Oh, you just said it.

973
00:15:52,576 --> 00:15:53,202
I mean, so,

974
00:15:53,202 --> 00:15:53,494
you know,

975
00:15:53,494 --> 00:15:53,953
we're a culture

976
00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:54,703
of oversharers

977
00:15:54,703 --> 00:15:55,120
now. It's

978
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,413
just so much data

979
00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:57,331
that's out there.

980
00:15:57,331 --> 00:15:58,457
And, you know, it's

981
00:15:58,457 --> 00:15:59,249
what I do for a living,

982
00:15:59,249 --> 00:16:00,334
is I look at people.

983
00:16:00,334 --> 00:16:00,834
I look at what

984
00:16:00,834 --> 00:16:01,877
they put online.

985
00:16:01,877 --> 00:16:03,003
I build profiles

986
00:16:03,003 --> 00:16:04,505
and look at ways

987
00:16:04,505 --> 00:16:05,089
of using

988
00:16:05,089 --> 00:16:06,006
that information to

989
00:16:06,006 --> 00:16:06,882
to protect children.

990
00:16:06,882 --> 00:16:07,758
And it's

991
00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:08,467
one of our

992
00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:09,468
greatest resources:

993
00:16:09,468 --> 00:16:10,511
social media

994
00:16:10,511 --> 00:16:12,388
and online content.

995
00:16:12,388 --> 00:16:12,805
And it didn't

996
00:16:12,805 --> 00:16:13,514
take you long

997
00:16:13,514 --> 00:16:14,431
then to find out

998
00:16:14,431 --> 00:16:14,890
essentially,

999
00:16:14,890 --> 00:16:15,224
as you said

1000
00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:15,766
with his first

1001
00:16:15,766 --> 00:16:16,976
and last name, to go.

1002
00:16:16,976 --> 00:16:17,476
What were some

1003
00:16:17,476 --> 00:16:17,810
of the things

1004
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:18,102
you were able

1005
00:16:18,102 --> 00:16:18,644
to find out

1006
00:16:18,644 --> 00:16:19,895
about this individual?

1007
00:16:19,895 --> 00:16:20,729
Pattern of life?

1008
00:16:20,729 --> 00:16:21,563
Interests, likes

1009
00:16:21,563 --> 00:16:22,815
and dislikes?

1010
00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:23,440
Yeah. All of it.

1011
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,191
Pattern of life,

1012
00:16:24,191 --> 00:16:25,609
likes, dislikes.

1013
00:16:25,609 --> 00:16:26,902
Is very clear

1014
00:16:26,902 --> 00:16:27,403
about sexual

1015
00:16:27,403 --> 00:16:28,362
orientation,

1016
00:16:28,362 --> 00:16:29,321
which matched up with

1017
00:16:29,321 --> 00:16:30,155
the gender

1018
00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:31,240
of the victim.

1019
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,616
And then we noticed

1020
00:16:32,616 --> 00:16:33,951
that the offender was,

1021
00:16:33,951 --> 00:16:35,619
appeared

1022
00:16:35,619 --> 00:16:35,995
to be

1023
00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:36,286
a very

1024
00:16:36,286 --> 00:16:37,788
talented cartoonist.

1025
00:16:37,788 --> 00:16:40,416
He did a lot of anime

1026
00:16:40,416 --> 00:16:41,291
cartoons, would

1027
00:16:41,291 --> 00:16:42,209
often post

1028
00:16:42,209 --> 00:16:43,669
photos of drawings

1029
00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:44,211
and things

1030
00:16:44,211 --> 00:16:44,670
that he made.

1031
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:45,421
It was very high

1032
00:16:45,421 --> 00:16:46,255
quality.

1033
00:16:46,255 --> 00:16:46,755
And was

1034
00:16:46,755 --> 00:16:48,257
actually offering

1035
00:16:48,257 --> 00:16:49,258
lessons to people

1036
00:16:49,258 --> 00:16:50,384
that were interested

1037
00:16:50,384 --> 00:16:52,302
in taking lessons

1038
00:16:52,302 --> 00:16:52,636
from him,

1039
00:16:52,636 --> 00:16:53,887
learning to draw anime,

1040
00:16:53,887 --> 00:16:54,888
learning to draw

1041
00:16:54,888 --> 00:16:56,223
cartoons, which

1042
00:16:56,223 --> 00:16:57,057
I'm sure

1043
00:16:57,057 --> 00:16:57,474
your seeing where

1044
00:16:57,474 --> 00:16:58,100
I'm going with that.

1045
00:16:58,100 --> 00:16:59,309
That's obviously a way

1046
00:16:59,309 --> 00:17:00,185
to kind of integrate

1047
00:17:00,185 --> 00:17:01,228
into his life and

1048
00:17:01,228 --> 00:17:02,021
and gain

1049
00:17:02,021 --> 00:17:03,313
face to face access

1050
00:17:03,313 --> 00:17:04,565
outside of social media.

1051
00:17:04,565 --> 00:17:05,190
Did you have any

1052
00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:06,316
previous experience

1053
00:17:06,316 --> 00:17:07,693
with anime, cartoons,

1054
00:17:07,693 --> 00:17:08,402
anything like that?

1055
00:17:09,403 --> 00:17:10,195
You know,

1056
00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:11,155
I spent a few hours

1057
00:17:11,155 --> 00:17:13,907
in detention for doodling in class,

1058
00:17:13,907 --> 00:17:15,409
but that's about it.
You know, nothing professionally, 

1059
00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:18,996
but, you know, it's easy.

1060
00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:23,876
Whether it's guitar or learning to draw or

1061
00:17:23,876 --> 00:17:25,335
play the violin, 

1062
00:17:25,335 --> 00:17:29,548
it's just being
comfortable talking to people,

1063
00:17:29,548 --> 00:17:32,301
talking to them and being in their presence in a way 

1064
00:17:32,301 --> 00:17:34,720
that doesn't raise suspicion and calms them.

1065
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,222
It's all about just building trust and building rapport 

1066
00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:38,766
to where they feel comfortable enough

1067
00:17:38,766 --> 00:17:40,225
to start opening up their lives  

1068
00:17:40,225 --> 00:17:41,935
where we can get access to more data.

1069
00:17:41,935 --> 00:17:42,436
Right.

1070
00:17:42,436 --> 00:17:43,437
Did it seem like

1071
00:17:43,437 --> 00:17:44,813
this was his main source

1072
00:17:44,813 --> 00:17:45,439
of income,

1073
00:17:45,439 --> 00:17:46,774
these cartoon classes?

1074
00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:47,024
Or did

1075
00:17:47,024 --> 00:17:48,233
he have other jobs

1076
00:17:48,233 --> 00:17:50,527
that you could tell?

1077
00:17:50,527 --> 00:17:51,236
It did. It seemed like it was

1078
00:17:51,236 --> 00:17:52,071
his main source.

1079
00:17:52,071 --> 00:17:52,863
He did,

1080
00:17:52,863 --> 00:17:55,866
he had a small street

1081
00:17:56,658 --> 00:17:58,452
food stall that he used

1082
00:17:58,452 --> 00:17:59,703
every now and again.

1083
00:17:59,703 --> 00:18:00,621
He cooked dinner for me

1084
00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:01,288
one night.

1085
00:18:01,288 --> 00:18:02,956
So after eating that,

1086
00:18:02,956 --> 00:18:04,500
I can't imagine that

1087
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,503
was much of his income because he wasn't that great at it.

1088
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:08,337
He was a much better cartoonist

1089
00:18:08,337 --> 00:18:09,505
than he was a cook.

1090
00:18:09,505 --> 00:18:10,214
I can imagine

1091
00:18:10,214 --> 00:18:10,839
some of our viewers

1092
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:11,423
right now saying,

1093
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:13,300
"Wait a sec. You broke

1094
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:14,343
bread with the devil."

1095
00:18:14,343 --> 00:18:14,885
Which is what

1096
00:18:14,885 --> 00:18:15,761
we have to do.

1097
00:18:15,761 --> 00:18:16,887
And so I'm fascinated,

1098
00:18:16,887 --> 00:18:17,763
how did you gain

1099
00:18:17,763 --> 00:18:18,388
his trust?

1100
00:18:18,388 --> 00:18:20,307
Did he not suspect

1101
00:18:20,307 --> 00:18:21,308
or did

1102
00:18:21,308 --> 00:18:21,934
he have other

1103
00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:23,268
western clients

1104
00:18:23,268 --> 00:18:25,020
for his classes?

1105
00:18:25,020 --> 00:18:26,647
Any western students?

1106
00:18:26,647 --> 00:18:27,439
I think I was his

1107
00:18:27,439 --> 00:18:28,357
first actually.

1108
00:18:28,357 --> 00:18:29,608
And we kind

1109
00:18:29,608 --> 00:18:30,567
of went over that

1110
00:18:30,567 --> 00:18:30,859
to see

1111
00:18:30,859 --> 00:18:31,693
if that was an issue.

1112
00:18:31,693 --> 00:18:32,528
But,

1113
00:18:32,528 --> 00:18:33,445
we decided,

1114
00:18:33,445 --> 00:18:34,363
you know, it's a culture -

1115
00:18:34,363 --> 00:18:35,030
Southeast Asia

1116
00:18:35,030 --> 00:18:35,864
is heavily

1117
00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:37,407
visited by

1118
00:18:37,407 --> 00:18:38,575
tourists.

1119
00:18:38,575 --> 00:18:39,326
Millions of tourists

1120
00:18:39,326 --> 00:18:39,868
all over,

1121
00:18:39,868 --> 00:18:40,494
all over this area.

1122
00:18:40,494 --> 00:18:41,829
So it's not uncommon,

1123
00:18:41,829 --> 00:18:42,996
for tourists

1124
00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:43,789
to interact

1125
00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:44,873
with locals.

1126
00:18:44,873 --> 00:18:45,374
Didn't raise

1127
00:18:45,374 --> 00:18:46,500
any suspicions at all.

1128
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:48,335
I, you know, in my

1129
00:18:48,335 --> 00:18:49,378
persona that

1130
00:18:49,378 --> 00:18:50,295
we custom built

1131
00:18:50,295 --> 00:18:51,630
for this operation,

1132
00:18:51,630 --> 00:18:53,257
I made him

1133
00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:53,549
believe

1134
00:18:53,549 --> 00:18:54,508
I had a younger son

1135
00:18:54,508 --> 00:18:55,759
that was in the U.S.,

1136
00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:56,260
and I was going to be

1137
00:18:56,260 --> 00:18:57,136
bringing over soon.

1138
00:18:57,136 --> 00:18:57,553
And I wanted

1139
00:18:57,553 --> 00:18:58,554
to kind of learn

1140
00:18:58,554 --> 00:18:59,513
how to draw to surprise

1141
00:18:59,513 --> 00:18:59,847
my son

1142
00:18:59,847 --> 00:19:00,472
when he came over.

1143
00:19:00,472 --> 00:19:00,806
And then,

1144
00:19:00,806 --> 00:19:02,015
when my son arrived,

1145
00:19:02,015 --> 00:19:03,016
maybe all of us could do

1146
00:19:03,016 --> 00:19:03,642
drawing lessons

1147
00:19:03,642 --> 00:19:04,309
together.

1148
00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:05,644
So we kind of,

1149
00:19:05,644 --> 00:19:06,061
you know,

1150
00:19:06,061 --> 00:19:06,478
I hate to

1151
00:19:06,478 --> 00:19:07,104
sound insensitive,

1152
00:19:07,104 --> 00:19:07,604
but dangled

1153
00:19:07,604 --> 00:19:08,188
the carrot there

1154
00:19:08,188 --> 00:19:08,605
a little bit

1155
00:19:08,605 --> 00:19:09,314
because, you know,

1156
00:19:09,314 --> 00:19:09,940
we understand

1157
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:10,524
what motivates

1158
00:19:10,524 --> 00:19:11,150
these offenders.

1159
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:11,942
Yeah.

1160
00:19:11,942 --> 00:19:12,442
And

1161
00:19:12,442 --> 00:19:13,110
that gained

1162
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:13,819
us access to him

1163
00:19:13,819 --> 00:19:14,278
outside of

1164
00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:15,487
social media.

1165
00:19:15,487 --> 00:19:16,613
Now,

1166
00:19:16,613 --> 00:19:17,614
I'm sitting on the floor

1167
00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:18,448
in his living room.

1168
00:19:18,448 --> 00:19:19,116
I'm not sitting

1169
00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:20,367
behind a keyboard,

1170
00:19:20,367 --> 00:19:20,909
looking at his

1171
00:19:20,909 --> 00:19:21,618
Facebook posts

1172
00:19:21,618 --> 00:19:22,744
or his Instagram posts.

1173
00:19:22,744 --> 00:19:23,537
Now we're sitting

1174
00:19:23,537 --> 00:19:24,413
across from him,

1175
00:19:24,413 --> 00:19:26,039
and now we can do some work.

1176
00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:26,748
Yeah, well

1177
00:19:26,748 --> 00:19:27,249
I know

1178
00:19:27,249 --> 00:19:27,916
the answer to this

1179
00:19:27,916 --> 00:19:28,375
just because

1180
00:19:28,375 --> 00:19:28,834
I've known you

1181
00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:29,710
for a few years

1182
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:30,919
and know your inner

1183
00:19:30,919 --> 00:19:31,628
fortitude,

1184
00:19:31,628 --> 00:19:32,921
but how did you

1185
00:19:32,921 --> 00:19:34,047
keep yourself from

1186
00:19:34,047 --> 00:19:35,048
not just coming

1187
00:19:35,048 --> 00:19:36,008
across the floor

1188
00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:37,342
and strangling this guy

1189
00:19:37,342 --> 00:19:37,843
and beating

1190
00:19:37,843 --> 00:19:38,802
the snot out of him,

1191
00:19:38,802 --> 00:19:39,219
Right?

1192
00:19:39,219 --> 00:19:39,970
How did you keep

1193
00:19:39,970 --> 00:19:40,512
it together?

1194
00:19:40,512 --> 00:19:40,804
And then,

1195
00:19:40,804 --> 00:19:41,597
how did you slowly

1196
00:19:41,597 --> 00:19:42,931
but surely build

1197
00:19:42,931 --> 00:19:43,891
then, the evidence,

1198
00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:45,309
the case that allowed

1199
00:19:45,309 --> 00:19:46,143
Thai authorities

1200
00:19:46,143 --> 00:19:47,394
to give the green light

1201
00:19:47,394 --> 00:19:47,978
to move in

1202
00:19:47,978 --> 00:19:49,438
for the arrest?

1203
00:19:49,438 --> 00:19:51,148
Yeah, it's tough.

1204
00:19:51,148 --> 00:19:52,566
It's tough to sit there,

1205
00:19:52,566 --> 00:19:52,983
sitting behind

1206
00:19:52,983 --> 00:19:53,400
a keyboard,

1207
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:54,484
talking to somebody,

1208
00:19:54,484 --> 00:19:54,902
pretending

1209
00:19:54,902 --> 00:19:55,569
to be somebody

1210
00:19:55,569 --> 00:19:56,612
that I'm truly not.

1211
00:19:56,612 --> 00:19:57,571
But it's much different

1212
00:19:57,571 --> 00:19:57,821
when you're

1213
00:19:57,821 --> 00:19:58,655
sitting there

1214
00:19:58,655 --> 00:19:59,948
face to face. You know,

1215
00:19:59,948 --> 00:20:00,407
I don't know how

1216
00:20:00,407 --> 00:20:00,908
I deal with it.

1217
00:20:00,908 --> 00:20:01,950
I just -

1218
00:20:01,950 --> 00:20:03,327
my eye is

1219
00:20:03,327 --> 00:20:04,077
is kind of

1220
00:20:04,077 --> 00:20:04,620
on the future.

1221
00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:05,162
I know that

1222
00:20:05,162 --> 00:20:06,580
at some point

1223
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:06,914
we're going to

1224
00:20:06,914 --> 00:20:07,956
be in court

1225
00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:08,373
and I'm going to

1226
00:20:08,373 --> 00:20:09,249
hear the gavel,

1227
00:20:09,249 --> 00:20:09,541
and I'm

1228
00:20:09,541 --> 00:20:11,293
going to see that victim,

1229
00:20:11,293 --> 00:20:12,127
or excuse me,

1230
00:20:12,127 --> 00:20:13,378
that offender

1231
00:20:13,378 --> 00:20:14,546
crying or upset

1232
00:20:14,546 --> 00:20:15,005
because he's

1233
00:20:15,005 --> 00:20:15,756
getting sentenced

1234
00:20:15,756 --> 00:20:16,298
to prison

1235
00:20:16,298 --> 00:20:16,673
for the rest

1236
00:20:16,673 --> 00:20:17,424
of his life.

1237
00:20:17,424 --> 00:20:18,258
That's what I focus on

1238
00:20:18,258 --> 00:20:19,343
in those moments.

1239
00:20:19,343 --> 00:20:20,385
Yes, I'm mad.

1240
00:20:20,385 --> 00:20:21,053
I'd love to,

1241
00:20:22,763 --> 00:20:23,680
you know,

1242
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:24,556
physically assault him,

1243
00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:25,098
but I'm just,

1244
00:20:25,098 --> 00:20:25,265
you know,

1245
00:20:25,265 --> 00:20:25,474
we're not

1246
00:20:25,474 --> 00:20:26,016
going to do it.

1247
00:20:26,016 --> 00:20:27,100
It's too important

1248
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:28,977
to the investigation.

1249
00:20:28,977 --> 00:20:29,686
We don't just want

1250
00:20:29,686 --> 00:20:30,604
to rescue victims.

1251
00:20:30,604 --> 00:20:31,104
We don't want to just

1252
00:20:31,104 --> 00:20:32,522
assist and intervene

1253
00:20:32,522 --> 00:20:33,774
and stop the abuse.

1254
00:20:33,774 --> 00:20:34,358
We want to make sure

1255
00:20:34,358 --> 00:20:34,858
the offender

1256
00:20:34,858 --> 00:20:35,400
is in a position

1257
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,902
to never abuse

1258
00:20:36,902 --> 00:20:37,486
another child

1259
00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:38,612
victim again.

1260
00:20:38,612 --> 00:20:40,489
So I kind of use that.

1261
00:20:40,489 --> 00:20:41,573
How

1262
00:20:41,573 --> 00:20:43,116
then finally, take us

1263
00:20:43,116 --> 00:20:44,034
through the

1264
00:20:44,034 --> 00:20:45,661
final green light,

1265
00:20:45,661 --> 00:20:46,495
the arrest.

1266
00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:46,745
If I'm

1267
00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:48,247
remembering correctly,

1268
00:20:48,247 --> 00:20:49,039
was there

1269
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:49,957
a sort of a last

1270
00:20:49,957 --> 00:20:50,999
meal kind of thing?

1271
00:20:50,999 --> 00:20:52,459
A little poetic justice

1272
00:20:52,459 --> 00:20:53,418
for this person?

1273
00:20:53,418 --> 00:20:53,752
I knew

1274
00:20:53,752 --> 00:20:54,086
he likes

1275
00:20:54,086 --> 00:20:55,170
a certain restaurant.

1276
00:20:55,170 --> 00:20:56,755
And you set it up

1277
00:20:56,755 --> 00:20:57,464
that he was

1278
00:20:57,464 --> 00:20:58,215
going to eat there

1279
00:20:58,215 --> 00:20:58,966
and talk us

1280
00:20:58,966 --> 00:21:01,134
through that.

1281
00:21:01,134 --> 00:21:01,593
So yeah, I took lessons from him

1282
00:21:01,593 --> 00:21:02,010
for a couple

1283
00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:02,844
months, and,

1284
00:21:02,844 --> 00:21:03,553
you know, not every day,

1285
00:21:03,553 --> 00:21:04,513
once a week or,

1286
00:21:04,513 --> 00:21:05,514
you know,

1287
00:21:05,514 --> 00:21:06,431
different places,

1288
00:21:06,431 --> 00:21:07,057
various places.

1289
00:21:07,057 --> 00:21:07,933
And sometimes

1290
00:21:07,933 --> 00:21:09,101
at his

1291
00:21:09,101 --> 00:21:09,893
private residence,

1292
00:21:09,893 --> 00:21:10,727
other times at

1293
00:21:10,727 --> 00:21:12,020
public parks.

1294
00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:13,730
You know, it's

1295
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:14,648
an active

1296
00:21:14,648 --> 00:21:15,524
criminal investigation,

1297
00:21:15,524 --> 00:21:16,316
so I don't want,

1298
00:21:16,316 --> 00:21:17,109
you know,

1299
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:17,651
viewers to think

1300
00:21:17,651 --> 00:21:18,318
I'm out there alone

1301
00:21:18,318 --> 00:21:18,735
doing this.

1302
00:21:18,735 --> 00:21:18,944
You know,

1303
00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:19,278
we have law

1304
00:21:19,278 --> 00:21:19,987
enforcement support.

1305
00:21:19,987 --> 00:21:20,153
We have

1306
00:21:20,153 --> 00:21:20,779
surveillance teams.

1307
00:21:20,779 --> 00:21:21,697
We have security teams,

1308
00:21:21,697 --> 00:21:22,072
top cover.

1309
00:21:22,072 --> 00:21:23,198
All that's there.

1310
00:21:23,198 --> 00:21:24,074
But we often

1311
00:21:24,074 --> 00:21:24,908
met in restaurants,

1312
00:21:24,908 --> 00:21:25,575
and he always

1313
00:21:25,575 --> 00:21:26,201
wanted to meet in

1314
00:21:26,201 --> 00:21:26,868
Burger King.

1315
00:21:26,868 --> 00:21:27,369
He loved

1316
00:21:27,369 --> 00:21:27,661
Burger

1317
00:21:27,661 --> 00:21:28,287
King. He was a big

1318
00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:29,371
Whopper fan.

1319
00:21:29,371 --> 00:21:30,580
So I always purposely

1320
00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:31,498
would do Starbucks.

1321
00:21:31,498 --> 00:21:32,332
We'd do McDonald's,

1322
00:21:32,332 --> 00:21:33,125
we'd do KFC.

1323
00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:33,500
We never did

1324
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:34,543
Burger King.

1325
00:21:34,543 --> 00:21:35,252
But anyway,

1326
00:21:35,252 --> 00:21:35,919
I took lessons

1327
00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:36,420
from this guy

1328
00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:37,671
for a couple months.

1329
00:21:37,671 --> 00:21:38,922
Finally, you know,

1330
00:21:38,922 --> 00:21:39,381
built enough

1331
00:21:39,381 --> 00:21:40,048
trust and rapport

1332
00:21:40,048 --> 00:21:40,299
where he

1333
00:21:40,299 --> 00:21:41,049
finally added me

1334
00:21:41,049 --> 00:21:41,842
on a social media.

1335
00:21:41,842 --> 00:21:42,509
I got access

1336
00:21:42,509 --> 00:21:42,926
to where we could

1337
00:21:42,926 --> 00:21:44,511
communicate online.

1338
00:21:44,511 --> 00:21:45,595
I prefer - it's

1339
00:21:45,595 --> 00:21:46,513
good to meet somebody

1340
00:21:46,513 --> 00:21:47,139
face to face

1341
00:21:47,139 --> 00:21:47,681
and talk to them

1342
00:21:47,681 --> 00:21:48,932
face to face.

1343
00:21:48,932 --> 00:21:50,183
It reassures them.

1344
00:21:50,183 --> 00:21:50,892
You can build trust

1345
00:21:50,892 --> 00:21:51,893
and rapport there.

1346
00:21:51,893 --> 00:21:53,145
But it's also

1347
00:21:53,145 --> 00:21:54,730
better once

1348
00:21:54,730 --> 00:21:55,689
that rapport's built

1349
00:21:55,689 --> 00:21:56,898
what I can go back

1350
00:21:56,898 --> 00:21:57,190
and we can

1351
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:58,191
communicate online

1352
00:21:58,191 --> 00:21:58,775
because it's kind of a

1353
00:21:58,775 --> 00:21:59,818
mask, right?

1354
00:21:59,818 --> 00:22:01,111
Give a mask,

1355
00:22:01,111 --> 00:22:02,029
or give a man a mask

1356
00:22:02,029 --> 00:22:02,654
and he'll show

1357
00:22:02,654 --> 00:22:03,405
you his true self.

1358
00:22:03,405 --> 00:22:04,698
So there's a little bit

1359
00:22:04,698 --> 00:22:05,115
of hiding

1360
00:22:05,115 --> 00:22:06,450
behind that keyboard.

1361
00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:07,617
So once we built

1362
00:22:07,617 --> 00:22:08,535
trust and rapport, I'm

1363
00:22:08,535 --> 00:22:09,286
still communicating

1364
00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:10,037
with him online,

1365
00:22:10,037 --> 00:22:10,245
and I

1366
00:22:10,245 --> 00:22:11,079
start dropping hints

1367
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:12,456
that I'm interested in

1368
00:22:12,456 --> 00:22:13,248
kind of the same things

1369
00:22:13,248 --> 00:22:13,749
that he is.

1370
00:22:13,749 --> 00:22:14,916
I'm asking about

1371
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:16,877
some young kids

1372
00:22:16,877 --> 00:22:17,294
that I see

1373
00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:18,045
around his area,

1374
00:22:18,045 --> 00:22:19,546
and he quickly

1375
00:22:19,546 --> 00:22:20,505
associates me

1376
00:22:20,505 --> 00:22:20,964
as a

1377
00:22:20,964 --> 00:22:22,174
like-minded offender,

1378
00:22:22,174 --> 00:22:23,759
provides me access

1379
00:22:23,759 --> 00:22:24,176
to all of his

1380
00:22:24,176 --> 00:22:25,385
social media,

1381
00:22:25,385 --> 00:22:27,012
tells me about

1382
00:22:27,012 --> 00:22:27,679
other victims

1383
00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:27,971
that he's

1384
00:22:27,971 --> 00:22:29,139
sexually assaulted,

1385
00:22:29,139 --> 00:22:30,098
that were not the boy

1386
00:22:30,098 --> 00:22:31,183
in the green shirt.

1387
00:22:31,183 --> 00:22:32,225
He's speaking openly

1388
00:22:32,225 --> 00:22:32,642
with you

1389
00:22:32,642 --> 00:22:33,310
at this point.

1390
00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:33,769
He doesn't

1391
00:22:33,769 --> 00:22:34,519
fear anything,

1392
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:35,187
so you've totally

1393
00:22:35,187 --> 00:22:35,812
convinced him,

1394
00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:36,355
pulled the wool

1395
00:22:36,355 --> 00:22:38,315
over his eyes. Right.

1396
00:22:38,315 --> 00:22:39,524
And then, he'd never would

1397
00:22:39,524 --> 00:22:40,525
give up the boy

1398
00:22:40,525 --> 00:22:41,860
in the green shirt.

1399
00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:42,944
He just

1400
00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:43,987
wouldn't talk about it.

1401
00:22:43,987 --> 00:22:44,237
Again,

1402
00:22:44,237 --> 00:22:44,654
he was talking

1403
00:22:44,654 --> 00:22:45,405
about other victims

1404
00:22:45,405 --> 00:22:46,782
that he was currently

1405
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:49,785
in contact with.

1406
00:22:49,785 --> 00:22:52,454
But, he did

1407
00:22:52,454 --> 00:22:53,830
finally allow

1408
00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:54,790
unrestricted access

1409
00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:55,499
to his social media,

1410
00:22:55,499 --> 00:22:57,167
so I got friends lists,

1411
00:22:57,167 --> 00:22:58,377
everything.

1412
00:22:58,377 --> 00:22:58,794
He lifted

1413
00:22:58,794 --> 00:22:59,419
all the

1414
00:22:59,419 --> 00:23:00,253
security restrictions.

1415
00:23:00,253 --> 00:23:00,629
I was able to

1416
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:01,296
view everything.

1417
00:23:01,296 --> 00:23:02,339
Our undercover, or not

1418
00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:02,839
our undercover,

1419
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:04,007
but our OSINT team

1420
00:23:04,007 --> 00:23:04,758
was actively

1421
00:23:04,758 --> 00:23:06,051
looking at everything.

1422
00:23:06,051 --> 00:23:07,010
And after a

1423
00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:08,053
several months

1424
00:23:08,053 --> 00:23:09,554
exhausting event

1425
00:23:09,554 --> 00:23:10,222
of looking

1426
00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:11,473
at his social media,

1427
00:23:11,473 --> 00:23:12,724
friends of friends

1428
00:23:12,724 --> 00:23:13,809
of friends,

1429
00:23:13,809 --> 00:23:16,103
we were finally able

1430
00:23:16,103 --> 00:23:17,229
to identify

1431
00:23:17,229 --> 00:23:17,646
the boy

1432
00:23:17,646 --> 00:23:18,730
in the green shirt.

1433
00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:20,607
That

1434
00:23:20,607 --> 00:23:21,316
they no longer

1435
00:23:21,316 --> 00:23:22,234
had a relationship.

1436
00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:23,151
He was no longer friends

1437
00:23:23,151 --> 00:23:23,902
with with him

1438
00:23:23,902 --> 00:23:25,195
via social media

1439
00:23:25,195 --> 00:23:26,905
and other

1440
00:23:26,905 --> 00:23:27,572
online content,

1441
00:23:27,572 --> 00:23:28,031
but we were able

1442
00:23:28,031 --> 00:23:28,532
to find him

1443
00:23:28,532 --> 00:23:28,698
through

1444
00:23:28,698 --> 00:23:29,950
friend of a friend.

1445
00:23:29,950 --> 00:23:30,659
And I'll

1446
00:23:30,659 --> 00:23:31,284
never forget the

1447
00:23:31,284 --> 00:23:31,952
day. It was,

1448
00:23:33,161 --> 00:23:34,579
I mean, it was

1449
00:23:34,579 --> 00:23:35,747
four or five months of

1450
00:23:35,747 --> 00:23:36,873
of all of our lives

1451
00:23:36,873 --> 00:23:37,916
just looking for

1452
00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:38,208
the boy

1453
00:23:38,208 --> 00:23:38,750
in the green shirt.

1454
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:39,543
I would be sitting on

1455
00:23:39,543 --> 00:23:40,460
the train,

1456
00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:41,878
I would look over,

1457
00:23:41,878 --> 00:23:42,504
I'd see kids in

1458
00:23:42,504 --> 00:23:43,088
green shirts.

1459
00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:43,839
And I'm just wondering,

1460
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:44,923
where is this,

1461
00:23:44,923 --> 00:23:45,674
where is this kid

1462
00:23:45,674 --> 00:23:46,383
in the green shirt?

1463
00:23:46,383 --> 00:23:47,300
And we finally,

1464
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:48,552
finally found him.

1465
00:23:48,552 --> 00:23:50,429
And was the actual

1466
00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:51,096
takedown

1467
00:23:51,096 --> 00:23:52,764
at a Burger King. How?

1468
00:23:52,764 --> 00:23:53,723
What was it?

1469
00:23:53,723 --> 00:23:54,224
And what was his

1470
00:23:54,224 --> 00:23:54,766
reaction?

1471
00:23:54,766 --> 00:23:56,393
And did he ever know

1472
00:23:56,393 --> 00:23:57,227
that it was you

1473
00:23:57,227 --> 00:23:58,103
who ultimately

1474
00:23:58,103 --> 00:23:58,770
betrayed him,

1475
00:23:58,770 --> 00:24:00,147
so to speak?

1476
00:24:00,147 --> 00:24:00,564
He finally

1477
00:24:00,564 --> 00:24:01,106
figured it out.

1478
00:24:01,106 --> 00:24:02,399
And absolutely,

1479
00:24:02,399 --> 00:24:02,899
I knew

1480
00:24:02,899 --> 00:24:03,191
we were going

1481
00:24:03,191 --> 00:24:04,192
to arrest him.

1482
00:24:04,192 --> 00:24:04,943
Law enforcement

1483
00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:05,986
had asked us to set up

1484
00:24:05,986 --> 00:24:08,238
one more art lesson.

1485
00:24:08,238 --> 00:24:08,488
They were

1486
00:24:08,488 --> 00:24:08,989
going to arrest

1487
00:24:08,989 --> 00:24:09,364
him, serve

1488
00:24:09,364 --> 00:24:10,949
a search warrant,

1489
00:24:10,949 --> 00:24:13,160
actual multiple

1490
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:13,660
search warrants

1491
00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:14,077
that day.

1492
00:24:14,077 --> 00:24:15,829
So I knew,

1493
00:24:15,829 --> 00:24:16,246
I knew he was

1494
00:24:16,246 --> 00:24:16,788
going to jail.

1495
00:24:16,788 --> 00:24:18,748
So just being who I am,

1496
00:24:18,748 --> 00:24:19,249
I set it up

1497
00:24:19,249 --> 00:24:20,667
at Burger King.

1498
00:24:20,667 --> 00:24:22,169
We had it timed out

1499
00:24:22,169 --> 00:24:22,711
perfectly.

1500
00:24:22,711 --> 00:24:23,920
He arrived,

1501
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:24,880
we ordered, went

1502
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,797
and sat back down.

1503
00:24:25,797 --> 00:24:26,339
He'd ordered

1504
00:24:26,339 --> 00:24:26,798
his Whopper.

1505
00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:27,674
He knew it was coming.

1506
00:24:27,674 --> 00:24:28,508
He could smell it.

1507
00:24:28,508 --> 00:24:29,718
He could taste it.

1508
00:24:29,718 --> 00:24:31,219
And law enforcement

1509
00:24:31,219 --> 00:24:31,845
walked up to him

1510
00:24:31,845 --> 00:24:32,387
and hooked him up

1511
00:24:32,387 --> 00:24:33,013
and took him away,

1512
00:24:33,013 --> 00:24:33,805
and he never got it.

1513
00:24:33,805 --> 00:24:35,265
And I think he's got -

1514
00:24:35,265 --> 00:24:36,016
he'll get one.

1515
00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:37,142
I mean if he makes it,

1516
00:24:37,142 --> 00:24:37,684
he'll get one.

1517
00:24:37,684 --> 00:24:38,560
He's got

1518
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,352
just a short

1519
00:24:39,352 --> 00:24:40,562
55 years to serve

1520
00:24:40,562 --> 00:24:42,481
in a Thai prison.

1521
00:24:42,481 --> 00:24:44,024
And then Burger King's all his.

1522
00:24:45,233 --> 00:24:46,401
A little poetic justice.

1523
00:24:46,401 --> 00:24:46,985
Well that's good.

1524
00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:47,110
Well,

1525
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:48,069
I do want to hear more

1526
00:24:48,069 --> 00:24:49,070
about the sentence,

1527
00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:50,489
more about

1528
00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:52,073
the follow-on arrests

1529
00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:53,116
and rescues and others.

1530
00:24:53,116 --> 00:24:54,201
So let's

1531
00:24:54,201 --> 00:24:55,327
take a quick break now,

1532
00:24:55,327 --> 00:24:56,620
and we'll come back for

1533
00:24:56,620 --> 00:24:57,954
the third segment

1534
00:24:57,954 --> 00:24:58,747
with undercover

1535
00:24:58,747 --> 00:24:59,206
operator

1536
00:24:59,206 --> 00:25:00,540
Alex. Don't go anywhere.

1537
00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:01,208
You won't want to miss

1538
00:25:01,208 --> 00:25:02,250
the final segment

1539
00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:03,877
of Voices for Freedom,

1540
00:25:03,877 --> 00:25:04,961
an anti-trafficking

1541
00:25:04,961 --> 00:25:05,462
podcast,

1542
00:25:05,462 --> 00:25:05,879
brought to you

1543
00:25:05,879 --> 00:25:08,048
by OUR Rescue.

1544
00:25:08,048 --> 00:25:08,507
A big

1545
00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:09,883
thanks to our sponsor,

1546
00:25:09,883 --> 00:25:11,426
OUR Rescue Store,

1547
00:25:11,426 --> 00:25:12,093
for supporting

1548
00:25:12,093 --> 00:25:13,178
our podcast.

1549
00:25:13,178 --> 00:25:14,471
The OUR Rescue Store

1550
00:25:14,471 --> 00:25:15,013
is committed

1551
00:25:15,013 --> 00:25:15,972
to responsibly

1552
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1553
00:25:17,057 --> 00:25:17,682
that ignite

1554
00:25:17,682 --> 00:25:18,475
conversations

1555
00:25:18,475 --> 00:25:19,851
about human trafficking,

1556
00:25:19,851 --> 00:25:20,852
raising awareness,

1557
00:25:20,852 --> 00:25:21,686
and contributing

1558
00:25:21,686 --> 00:25:22,437
to the movement

1559
00:25:22,437 --> 00:25:23,522
against it.

1560
00:25:23,522 --> 00:25:24,439
With more than enough

1561
00:25:24,439 --> 00:25:25,690
colors, designs,

1562
00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:26,233
and items

1563
00:25:26,233 --> 00:25:27,108
to choose from,

1564
00:25:27,108 --> 00:25:27,609
there is

1565
00:25:27,609 --> 00:25:28,610
definitely something

1566
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:29,778
for you.

1567
00:25:29,778 --> 00:25:30,654
Find something

1568
00:25:30,654 --> 00:25:31,905
you'll be proud to own,

1569
00:25:31,905 --> 00:25:33,073
and be an advocate

1570
00:25:33,073 --> 00:25:34,199
for change.

1571
00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:35,367
Visit

1572
00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,452
store.ourrescue.org

1573
00:25:37,452 --> 00:25:38,828
and use the promo code

1574
00:25:38,828 --> 00:25:41,206
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1575
00:25:41,206 --> 00:25:42,249
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1576
00:25:42,249 --> 00:25:43,166
That's Voices10

1577
00:25:43,166 --> 00:25:44,751
on

1578
00:25:44,751 --> 00:25:47,087
store.ourrescue.org.

1579
00:25:48,713 --> 00:25:49,214
And welcome

1580
00:25:49,214 --> 00:25:50,006
back to Voices

1581
00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:50,549
for Freedom.

1582
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:51,466
an anti-trafficking

1583
00:25:51,466 --> 00:25:52,008
podcast,

1584
00:25:52,008 --> 00:25:52,467
brought to you

1585
00:25:52,467 --> 00:25:54,219
by OUR Rescue.

1586
00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:55,178
If you're just joining

1587
00:25:55,178 --> 00:25:56,304
us, you've missed a lot.

1588
00:25:56,304 --> 00:25:57,055
We are talking

1589
00:25:57,055 --> 00:25:58,473
with undercover operator

1590
00:25:58,473 --> 00:25:59,641
codenamed "Alex,"

1591
00:25:59,641 --> 00:26:00,225
coming to us

1592
00:26:00,225 --> 00:26:01,268
live late at night,

1593
00:26:01,268 --> 00:26:02,060
his time,

1594
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:03,812
in Southeast Asia,

1595
00:26:03,812 --> 00:26:05,522
talking about the

1596
00:26:05,522 --> 00:26:07,774
iconic case of the "Boy

1597
00:26:07,774 --> 00:26:08,984
in the Green Shirt"

1598
00:26:08,984 --> 00:26:10,652
and the suspect

1599
00:26:10,652 --> 00:26:11,861
who was, as you heard

1600
00:26:11,861 --> 00:26:12,320
the end of the

1601
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,071
last segment,

1602
00:26:13,071 --> 00:26:14,239
ultimately arrested

1603
00:26:14,239 --> 00:26:15,532
and is now facing

1604
00:26:15,532 --> 00:26:17,117
55 years in prison.

1605
00:26:17,117 --> 00:26:17,325
That's

1606
00:26:17,325 --> 00:26:18,159
where he is serving,

1607
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:18,535
thanks to

1608
00:26:18,535 --> 00:26:19,452
the work of Alex

1609
00:26:19,452 --> 00:26:20,203
and the amazing

1610
00:26:20,203 --> 00:26:21,413
Thai law enforcement

1611
00:26:21,413 --> 00:26:22,497
and other authorities.

1612
00:26:22,497 --> 00:26:22,914
Alex,

1613
00:26:22,914 --> 00:26:24,040
as we move through this

1614
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,041
final segment,

1615
00:26:25,041 --> 00:26:26,710
talk to us again about,

1616
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:27,544
the sentence

1617
00:26:27,544 --> 00:26:28,295
we heard of,

1618
00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:29,462
the conviction.

1619
00:26:29,462 --> 00:26:31,172
But, I heard

1620
00:26:31,172 --> 00:26:32,007
that law enforcement

1621
00:26:32,007 --> 00:26:33,300
also served

1622
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:34,342
search warrants

1623
00:26:34,342 --> 00:26:35,302
on the Nene

1624
00:26:35,302 --> 00:26:36,511
Modelling Agency

1625
00:26:36,511 --> 00:26:38,179
because this suspect,

1626
00:26:38,179 --> 00:26:38,888
now we can call him

1627
00:26:38,888 --> 00:26:39,973
this predator,

1628
00:26:39,973 --> 00:26:41,433
had connections there.

1629
00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:42,142
Tell us about

1630
00:26:42,142 --> 00:26:42,767
the results

1631
00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:43,602
of the operations,

1632
00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:44,603
both in additional

1633
00:26:44,603 --> 00:26:45,937
arrest warrants,

1634
00:26:45,937 --> 00:26:47,105
arrests, convictions

1635
00:26:47,105 --> 00:26:48,023
if there were any,

1636
00:26:48,023 --> 00:26:49,107
rescues,

1637
00:26:49,107 --> 00:26:49,983
just to show

1638
00:26:49,983 --> 00:26:50,650
that through

1639
00:26:50,650 --> 00:26:51,610
this operation,

1640
00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:52,861
there was so much good

1641
00:26:52,861 --> 00:26:53,862
that came from it

1642
00:26:53,862 --> 00:26:54,696
and so much good

1643
00:26:54,696 --> 00:26:55,697
that continues to happen

1644
00:26:55,697 --> 00:26:57,574
across the region.

1645
00:26:57,574 --> 00:26:57,824
Yeah,

1646
00:26:57,824 --> 00:26:59,826
so exactly that.

1647
00:26:59,826 --> 00:27:00,702
This offender

1648
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:01,494
that was arrested,

1649
00:27:01,494 --> 00:27:01,995
that we just were

1650
00:27:01,995 --> 00:27:03,371
speaking about me,

1651
00:27:03,371 --> 00:27:05,123
was an associate

1652
00:27:05,123 --> 00:27:05,957
of a child

1653
00:27:05,957 --> 00:27:06,833
modelling agency,

1654
00:27:06,833 --> 00:27:07,250
the Nene

1655
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:08,251
Modelling Agency.

1656
00:27:08,251 --> 00:27:08,835
That was kind

1657
00:27:08,835 --> 00:27:09,544
of uncovered

1658
00:27:09,544 --> 00:27:10,337
through the course

1659
00:27:10,337 --> 00:27:11,129
of the investigation

1660
00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:11,421
over those

1661
00:27:11,421 --> 00:27:12,464
several months.

1662
00:27:12,464 --> 00:27:13,882
When,

1663
00:27:13,882 --> 00:27:14,549
when the offender

1664
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:15,216
that I had been taking

1665
00:27:15,216 --> 00:27:15,759
lessons from

1666
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:16,593
was arrested,

1667
00:27:16,593 --> 00:27:17,677
at the same time,

1668
00:27:17,677 --> 00:27:18,136
his house was

1669
00:27:18,136 --> 00:27:18,887
being searched

1670
00:27:18,887 --> 00:27:20,221
by Thai law enforcement

1671
00:27:20,221 --> 00:27:21,181
as was the

1672
00:27:21,181 --> 00:27:22,182
Nene Modelling Agency.

1673
00:27:22,182 --> 00:27:22,724
They were serving

1674
00:27:22,724 --> 00:27:24,184
a search warrant there,

1675
00:27:24,184 --> 00:27:24,934
seizing

1676
00:27:24,934 --> 00:27:26,853
videos, cameras,

1677
00:27:26,853 --> 00:27:28,396
micro SD cards.

1678
00:27:28,396 --> 00:27:29,898
Of children? Adults,

1679
00:27:29,898 --> 00:27:32,025
boys, girls, everything?

1680
00:27:32,025 --> 00:27:33,526
So his modelling

1681
00:27:33,526 --> 00:27:33,860
agency

1682
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:34,778
was mainly focused

1683
00:27:34,778 --> 00:27:35,195
on children.

1684
00:27:35,195 --> 00:27:35,737
He did have

1685
00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:36,363
adult clients,

1686
00:27:36,363 --> 00:27:37,322
but it was,

1687
00:27:37,322 --> 00:27:37,656
I think,

1688
00:27:37,656 --> 00:27:38,323
one of the top

1689
00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:39,324
two child

1690
00:27:39,324 --> 00:27:40,325
modelling agencies

1691
00:27:40,325 --> 00:27:40,867
in the country

1692
00:27:40,867 --> 00:27:41,660
at the time.

1693
00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:42,786
And this offender

1694
00:27:42,786 --> 00:27:43,495
that we've been talking

1695
00:27:43,495 --> 00:27:44,037
about on this

1696
00:27:44,037 --> 00:27:44,954
segment was

1697
00:27:44,954 --> 00:27:46,790
a close friend with

1698
00:27:46,790 --> 00:27:47,457
the owner

1699
00:27:47,457 --> 00:27:47,957
of the Nene

1700
00:27:47,957 --> 00:27:49,000
Modelling Agency

1701
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:49,918
and was

1702
00:27:49,918 --> 00:27:50,877
kind of instrumental

1703
00:27:50,877 --> 00:27:51,878
in finding,

1704
00:27:51,878 --> 00:27:52,712
finding victims,

1705
00:27:52,712 --> 00:27:53,213
connecting them

1706
00:27:53,213 --> 00:27:53,380
with the

1707
00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:54,255
modelling agency,

1708
00:27:54,255 --> 00:27:55,173
and then grooming those,

1709
00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:56,132
those children,

1710
00:27:56,132 --> 00:27:57,300
grooming their parents

1711
00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:58,385
to allow them to

1712
00:27:59,636 --> 00:28:00,261
have extended

1713
00:28:00,261 --> 00:28:00,845
time away from

1714
00:28:00,845 --> 00:28:01,513
the parents

1715
00:28:01,513 --> 00:28:02,347
unsupervised

1716
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:02,764
with members

1717
00:28:02,764 --> 00:28:04,140
of the modelling agency,

1718
00:28:04,140 --> 00:28:05,350
which was later

1719
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:06,101
determined to be

1720
00:28:06,101 --> 00:28:07,435
a front for

1721
00:28:07,435 --> 00:28:08,728
a CSAM

1722
00:28:08,728 --> 00:28:10,105
distribution network.

1723
00:28:10,105 --> 00:28:11,189
Can you give us an idea

1724
00:28:11,189 --> 00:28:12,565
in terms of amounts of -

1725
00:28:12,565 --> 00:28:12,899
and again,

1726
00:28:12,899 --> 00:28:13,358
I'm speaking

1727
00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:14,109
way over my head here -

1728
00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:16,236
terabytes of data of,

1729
00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:16,528
you know,

1730
00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:17,487
videos, footage.

1731
00:28:17,487 --> 00:28:18,446
How many images?

1732
00:28:18,446 --> 00:28:19,155
Because again,

1733
00:28:19,155 --> 00:28:19,948
from my understanding,

1734
00:28:19,948 --> 00:28:20,907
this is one of the

1735
00:28:20,907 --> 00:28:22,075
largest seizures

1736
00:28:22,075 --> 00:28:22,450
of course

1737
00:28:22,450 --> 00:28:23,827
that I've ever heard of.

1738
00:28:23,827 --> 00:28:24,369
And I think in

1739
00:28:24,369 --> 00:28:25,495
a lot of ways in

1740
00:28:25,495 --> 00:28:25,954
the region

1741
00:28:25,954 --> 00:28:26,246
had ever

1742
00:28:26,246 --> 00:28:27,831
experienced, correct?

1743
00:28:27,831 --> 00:28:28,832
Yeah, it was big.

1744
00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:30,208
I don't remember the

1745
00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:31,960
the number of devices

1746
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:32,544
that were seized,

1747
00:28:32,544 --> 00:28:32,919
but again,

1748
00:28:32,919 --> 00:28:34,170
it's a modelling agency.

1749
00:28:34,170 --> 00:28:35,296
Phones, computers,

1750
00:28:35,296 --> 00:28:35,714
hard drives,

1751
00:28:35,714 --> 00:28:36,840
external hard drives.

1752
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,175
Lots of terabytes,

1753
00:28:39,175 --> 00:28:40,969
Lots of cloud storage

1754
00:28:40,969 --> 00:28:41,594
where things

1755
00:28:41,594 --> 00:28:42,470
had to be downloaded

1756
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:42,846
and pulled

1757
00:28:42,846 --> 00:28:43,805
from the cloud.

1758
00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:44,514
I think we looked

1759
00:28:44,514 --> 00:28:45,473
at over,

1760
00:28:45,473 --> 00:28:47,308
Thai law enforcement,

1761
00:28:47,308 --> 00:28:48,351
We consult and assist

1762
00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:49,227
with them in the victim

1763
00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:50,729
ID phase

1764
00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:52,188
of identifying

1765
00:28:52,188 --> 00:28:53,273
some of the victims

1766
00:28:53,273 --> 00:28:53,815
that are seen

1767
00:28:53,815 --> 00:28:54,733
in the CSAM.

1768
00:28:54,733 --> 00:28:56,192
Somewhere over two million

1769
00:28:56,192 --> 00:28:57,402
separate files;

1770
00:28:57,402 --> 00:28:58,737
that's a lot.

1771
00:28:58,737 --> 00:28:59,654
And then,

1772
00:28:59,654 --> 00:29:00,196
just to show

1773
00:29:00,196 --> 00:29:01,698
the geographical reach,

1774
00:29:01,698 --> 00:29:02,282
we had talked

1775
00:29:02,282 --> 00:29:03,116
about Bangkok.

1776
00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:03,658
We talked about

1777
00:29:03,658 --> 00:29:04,993
the capital city.

1778
00:29:04,993 --> 00:29:06,035
I understand that

1779
00:29:06,035 --> 00:29:06,453
the follow-on

1780
00:29:06,453 --> 00:29:07,287
investigation

1781
00:29:07,287 --> 00:29:08,204
actually extended

1782
00:29:08,204 --> 00:29:08,955
even to the north

1783
00:29:08,955 --> 00:29:09,998
of the country, correct?

1784
00:29:09,998 --> 00:29:10,331
And maybe

1785
00:29:10,331 --> 00:29:11,291
even to a teacher?

1786
00:29:11,291 --> 00:29:11,916
When you think about,

1787
00:29:11,916 --> 00:29:13,042
we put our trust in

1788
00:29:13,042 --> 00:29:13,960
these teachers, both

1789
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:14,586
in the United States

1790
00:29:14,586 --> 00:29:15,295
and around the world.

1791
00:29:15,295 --> 00:29:15,962
And yet, we know

1792
00:29:15,962 --> 00:29:17,756
that sometimes

1793
00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:19,090
these individuals

1794
00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:20,175
use their contact

1795
00:29:20,175 --> 00:29:20,717
and their jobs

1796
00:29:20,717 --> 00:29:21,259
to get them close

1797
00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:22,051
to children to

1798
00:29:22,051 --> 00:29:23,720
to do bad things.

1799
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,138
We were able to seize

1800
00:29:25,138 --> 00:29:25,889
some membership

1801
00:29:25,889 --> 00:29:27,390
lists of members

1802
00:29:27,390 --> 00:29:28,224
that were active

1803
00:29:28,224 --> 00:29:28,516
in that

1804
00:29:28,516 --> 00:29:29,768
CSAM distribution,

1805
00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:30,727
which I think was in

1806
00:29:30,727 --> 00:29:31,686
35 different

1807
00:29:31,686 --> 00:29:32,145
countries.

1808
00:29:32,145 --> 00:29:32,937
We're still going through

1809
00:29:32,937 --> 00:29:34,147
that, making arrests.

1810
00:29:34,147 --> 00:29:34,898
And then specifically

1811
00:29:34,898 --> 00:29:35,273
to what you're

1812
00:29:35,273 --> 00:29:36,316
speaking about, Matt,

1813
00:29:36,316 --> 00:29:38,318
led us to

1814
00:29:38,318 --> 00:29:39,027
an offender

1815
00:29:39,027 --> 00:29:40,069
in Northern Thailand

1816
00:29:40,069 --> 00:29:40,737
that, again,

1817
00:29:40,737 --> 00:29:41,237
was a teacher.

1818
00:29:41,237 --> 00:29:41,780
We were

1819
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:42,864
able to uncover some

1820
00:29:44,574 --> 00:29:45,575
videos

1821
00:29:45,575 --> 00:29:46,576
of an unknown

1822
00:29:46,576 --> 00:29:47,494
male, again,

1823
00:29:47,494 --> 00:29:48,244
sexually assaulting

1824
00:29:48,244 --> 00:29:49,496
some young boys.

1825
00:29:49,496 --> 00:29:51,289
And through

1826
00:29:51,289 --> 00:29:53,041
the use of,

1827
00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:55,752
our private digital

1828
00:29:55,752 --> 00:29:57,003
forensics lab,

1829
00:29:57,003 --> 00:29:57,879
and then

1830
00:29:57,879 --> 00:29:58,630
with using

1831
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:59,422
some of the equipment

1832
00:29:59,422 --> 00:30:00,381
that we have provided

1833
00:30:00,381 --> 00:30:01,841
to Thai law enforcement:

1834
00:30:01,841 --> 00:30:02,884
software, digital

1835
00:30:02,884 --> 00:30:04,010
forensic software,

1836
00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:04,344
digital

1837
00:30:04,344 --> 00:30:04,969
forensic hardware

1838
00:30:04,969 --> 00:30:05,595
that allows them

1839
00:30:05,595 --> 00:30:06,679
to kind of exploit

1840
00:30:06,679 --> 00:30:07,305
digital media

1841
00:30:07,305 --> 00:30:08,348
and pull every last

1842
00:30:08,348 --> 00:30:09,098
strand of evidence

1843
00:30:09,098 --> 00:30:09,766
from it.

1844
00:30:09,766 --> 00:30:11,059
We were able to tie

1845
00:30:11,059 --> 00:30:11,392
that to a

1846
00:30:11,392 --> 00:30:12,310
specific location,

1847
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:13,728
which led to a school

1848
00:30:13,728 --> 00:30:14,687
and then to

1849
00:30:14,687 --> 00:30:15,730
a teacher

1850
00:30:15,730 --> 00:30:17,106
who was later arrested.

1851
00:30:17,106 --> 00:30:17,982
Man.

1852
00:30:17,982 --> 00:30:18,566
Well,

1853
00:30:18,566 --> 00:30:19,234
you talk about

1854
00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:19,734
the equipment,

1855
00:30:19,734 --> 00:30:20,819
and in a few minutes,

1856
00:30:20,819 --> 00:30:21,444
we'll wrap up

1857
00:30:21,444 --> 00:30:22,237
this episode,

1858
00:30:22,237 --> 00:30:23,154
talking about

1859
00:30:23,154 --> 00:30:24,155
why the need for

1860
00:30:24,155 --> 00:30:24,864
this equipment

1861
00:30:24,864 --> 00:30:25,782
has never been greater.

1862
00:30:25,782 --> 00:30:27,408
And hopefully, those in

1863
00:30:27,408 --> 00:30:28,117
our audience

1864
00:30:28,117 --> 00:30:28,535
will be willing

1865
00:30:28,535 --> 00:30:29,327
to support.

1866
00:30:29,327 --> 00:30:30,119
But just a couple

1867
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:31,037
questions to wrap

1868
00:30:31,037 --> 00:30:31,913
this up.

1869
00:30:31,913 --> 00:30:33,832
One, is

1870
00:30:33,832 --> 00:30:34,749
are investigations

1871
00:30:34,749 --> 00:30:36,543
still occurring today?

1872
00:30:36,543 --> 00:30:36,751
I mean,

1873
00:30:36,751 --> 00:30:37,085
that's the thing.

1874
00:30:37,085 --> 00:30:37,544
This happened

1875
00:30:37,544 --> 00:30:38,503
a few years ago, right?

1876
00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:39,546
2020, I think,

1877
00:30:39,546 --> 00:30:40,839
and into 2021.

1878
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:41,965
My understanding is

1879
00:30:41,965 --> 00:30:42,799
is that,

1880
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:44,467
OUR rescue analysts

1881
00:30:44,467 --> 00:30:45,510
continue to build

1882
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:46,636
new cases, right?

1883
00:30:46,636 --> 00:30:47,846
Working with local Thai on -

1884
00:30:47,846 --> 00:30:49,347
sorry - new cases

1885
00:30:49,347 --> 00:30:49,889
on local

1886
00:30:49,889 --> 00:30:51,474
Thai offenders based on

1887
00:30:51,474 --> 00:30:52,809
some of this evidence

1888
00:30:52,809 --> 00:30:54,060
found on the Nene

1889
00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:54,894
Modeling Agency

1890
00:30:54,894 --> 00:30:55,979
hard drives.

1891
00:30:55,979 --> 00:30:57,021
And not just in Thailand,

1892
00:30:57,021 --> 00:30:58,064
in other countries as well.

1893
00:30:58,064 --> 00:30:59,232
Yeah, about 35. 

1894
00:30:59,232 --> 00:31:01,276
Active offenders that were -

1895
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:03,945
this is one of those networks where, 

1896
00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:07,240
if you were a member of the network and you were a member in good standing,

1897
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,158
it was only because you were an active member. 

1898
00:31:09,158 --> 00:31:11,578
That means you provided new content,  

1899
00:31:11,578 --> 00:31:13,997
not just downloaded content but private content.

1900
00:31:13,997 --> 00:31:20,670
So, a lot of seperate reports related to other
 victims in other countries

1901
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:25,174
which is a result of, you know,
in follow-up investigations.

1902
00:31:25,174 --> 00:31:27,176
Not just in Thailand. 

1903
00:31:27,176 --> 00:31:30,388
And that's very common in all of our cases.

1904
00:31:30,388 --> 00:31:34,976
I think that's one of the things, that's one of the spaces NGO's can fill internationally.

1905
00:31:34,976 --> 00:31:37,770
Where international law enforcement, 
law enforcement in general,

1906
00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:42,442
a lot of times, they don't have the time after the arrest
 to kind of drill down and look at all that data.

1907
00:31:42,442 --> 00:31:45,028
Two million seperate files, that takes time to go through. 

1908
00:31:45,028 --> 00:31:48,406
You know, we fill that gap, where they can move on to other investigations. 

1909
00:31:48,406 --> 00:31:51,868
And, you know, if their laws in that country are permissible 

1910
00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:53,244
and we're allowed to consult and assist, 

1911
00:31:53,244 --> 00:31:56,080
you know, we can spend the time and go through there

1912
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,790
 and make those connections for them.

1913
00:31:57,790 --> 00:31:57,999
Yeah,

1914
00:31:57,999 --> 00:31:58,499
and I love when you

1915
00:31:58,499 --> 00:31:59,792
talk about that, too.

1916
00:31:59,792 --> 00:32:00,627
At OUR Rescue,

1917
00:32:00,627 --> 00:32:01,252
I mean, we've

1918
00:32:01,252 --> 00:32:02,587
never been involved

1919
00:32:02,587 --> 00:32:03,421
or supported

1920
00:32:03,421 --> 00:32:04,047
the defund

1921
00:32:04,047 --> 00:32:05,089
the police movement,

1922
00:32:05,089 --> 00:32:05,548
either here

1923
00:32:05,548 --> 00:32:06,299
in the United States or

1924
00:32:06,299 --> 00:32:06,841
around the world.

1925
00:32:06,841 --> 00:32:08,051
We fund the police.

1926
00:32:08,051 --> 00:32:09,719
We're filling gaps

1927
00:32:09,719 --> 00:32:10,136
in this.

1928
00:32:10,136 --> 00:32:10,762
And you see why

1929
00:32:10,762 --> 00:32:11,304
this case

1930
00:32:11,304 --> 00:32:12,555
is so important.

1931
00:32:12,555 --> 00:32:13,932
Probably the most

1932
00:32:13,932 --> 00:32:15,808
important question

1933
00:32:15,808 --> 00:32:17,268
about this case is,

1934
00:32:17,268 --> 00:32:18,770
what happened to the boy

1935
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:19,562
in the green shirt?

1936
00:32:19,562 --> 00:32:20,396
Did you ever

1937
00:32:20,396 --> 00:32:21,439
get to meet him?

1938
00:32:21,439 --> 00:32:21,940
Do you know what

1939
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:23,191
type of aftercare

1940
00:32:23,191 --> 00:32:24,317
and survivor support

1941
00:32:24,317 --> 00:32:25,944
was provided to him

1942
00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:27,403
and the other children,

1943
00:32:27,403 --> 00:32:28,321
child victims

1944
00:32:28,321 --> 00:32:29,280
and survivors,

1945
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,406
that you and

1946
00:32:30,406 --> 00:32:31,950
our Thai law enforcement

1947
00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:32,450
partners

1948
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:34,285
were able to find

1949
00:32:34,285 --> 00:32:35,036
through this,

1950
00:32:35,036 --> 00:32:35,954
the resolution

1951
00:32:35,954 --> 00:32:37,330
of this case?

1952
00:32:37,330 --> 00:32:38,957
Once he was identified,

1953
00:32:38,957 --> 00:32:40,917
immediately, he was

1954
00:32:40,917 --> 00:32:41,501
contacted by

1955
00:32:41,501 --> 00:32:42,085
law enforcement,

1956
00:32:42,085 --> 00:32:43,086
his family was contacted

1957
00:32:43,086 --> 00:32:43,836
by law enforcement.

1958
00:32:45,797 --> 00:32:47,173
And then

1959
00:32:47,173 --> 00:32:47,840
identified as a

1960
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,217
victim very quickly.

1961
00:32:49,217 --> 00:32:51,552
I did get a chance to -

1962
00:32:51,552 --> 00:32:52,512
I didn't get a chance

1963
00:32:52,512 --> 00:32:53,346
to meet him.

1964
00:32:53,346 --> 00:32:53,846
I was

1965
00:32:53,846 --> 00:32:55,306
in the same building

1966
00:32:55,306 --> 00:32:56,766
on one of, the

1967
00:32:56,766 --> 00:32:57,433
day

1968
00:32:57,433 --> 00:32:57,684
he was

1969
00:32:57,684 --> 00:32:58,393
first interviewed.

1970
00:32:58,393 --> 00:33:00,019
They did a child

1971
00:33:00,019 --> 00:33:00,687
forensic interview,

1972
00:33:00,687 --> 00:33:00,937
which is

1973
00:33:00,937 --> 00:33:02,188
very non-intrusive, a

1974
00:33:02,188 --> 00:33:03,022
very professional way

1975
00:33:03,022 --> 00:33:03,481
to interview

1976
00:33:03,481 --> 00:33:05,316
child victims.

1977
00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:06,067
Thai law enforcement

1978
00:33:06,067 --> 00:33:06,609
have adopted

1979
00:33:06,609 --> 00:33:07,193
that principle.

1980
00:33:07,193 --> 00:33:07,568
It's kind of a

1981
00:33:07,568 --> 00:33:08,319
western principle,

1982
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:08,778
but it's

1983
00:33:08,778 --> 00:33:10,321
become a very popular.

1984
00:33:10,321 --> 00:33:11,197
I saw him

1985
00:33:11,197 --> 00:33:11,739
enter the building

1986
00:33:11,739 --> 00:33:12,615
that day.

1987
00:33:12,615 --> 00:33:13,282
So I finally

1988
00:33:13,282 --> 00:33:14,450
got to see him.

1989
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:15,076
All I had,

1990
00:33:15,076 --> 00:33:15,451
you know, up

1991
00:33:15,451 --> 00:33:15,952
to that point

1992
00:33:15,952 --> 00:33:17,245
were six or seven

1993
00:33:17,245 --> 00:33:18,496
photos of him,

1994
00:33:18,496 --> 00:33:19,455
so it was great

1995
00:33:19,455 --> 00:33:21,040
to get a new visual,

1996
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,542
mental picture of him,

1997
00:33:22,542 --> 00:33:23,209
you know, smiling

1998
00:33:23,209 --> 00:33:23,710
and walking in

1999
00:33:23,710 --> 00:33:24,293
with his family

2000
00:33:24,293 --> 00:33:25,420
and seeing him

2001
00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:26,587
come in.

2002
00:33:26,587 --> 00:33:26,921
You know, it's

2003
00:33:26,921 --> 00:33:27,964
still

2004
00:33:27,964 --> 00:33:28,923
a tough process

2005
00:33:28,923 --> 00:33:29,424
for a victim

2006
00:33:29,424 --> 00:33:29,924
to go through.

2007
00:33:29,924 --> 00:33:32,260
But lots of support from

2008
00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:34,762
OUR, from, you know,

2009
00:33:34,762 --> 00:33:35,888
multiple ministries

2010
00:33:35,888 --> 00:33:37,015
in the Thai government

2011
00:33:37,015 --> 00:33:37,849
and Thai law enforcement.

2012
00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:39,017
Social workers

2013
00:33:39,017 --> 00:33:40,226
and attorneys.

2014
00:33:40,226 --> 00:33:41,602
That's one of,

2015
00:33:41,602 --> 00:33:42,061
one of my

2016
00:33:42,061 --> 00:33:42,562
favorite things

2017
00:33:42,562 --> 00:33:43,479
about our organization,

2018
00:33:43,479 --> 00:33:44,147
is our aftercare

2019
00:33:44,147 --> 00:33:44,772
doesn't stop

2020
00:33:44,772 --> 00:33:45,940
after the arrest.

2021
00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:46,983
Our contact with victims

2022
00:33:46,983 --> 00:33:47,358
doesn't stop

2023
00:33:47,358 --> 00:33:48,443
after the arrest.

2024
00:33:48,443 --> 00:33:49,235
You know, he was six

2025
00:33:49,235 --> 00:33:50,111
or seven at the time

2026
00:33:50,111 --> 00:33:51,529
we found him.

2027
00:33:51,529 --> 00:33:53,990
And he'll have,

2028
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:54,574
he'll be able

2029
00:33:54,574 --> 00:33:55,575
to contact

2030
00:33:55,575 --> 00:33:56,617
any member of our team,

2031
00:33:56,617 --> 00:33:57,076
especially our

2032
00:33:57,076 --> 00:33:58,327
aftercare team,

2033
00:33:58,327 --> 00:33:58,911
you know,

2034
00:33:58,911 --> 00:33:59,704
from here on out.

2035
00:33:59,704 --> 00:34:00,621
And we do stay

2036
00:34:00,621 --> 00:34:01,456
in regular contact

2037
00:34:01,456 --> 00:34:02,331
with the victims,

2038
00:34:02,331 --> 00:34:02,832
you know,

2039
00:34:02,832 --> 00:34:03,499
providing them

2040
00:34:03,499 --> 00:34:05,460
transportation and hotels

2041
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:06,085
when they're traveling

2042
00:34:06,085 --> 00:34:06,586
for court

2043
00:34:06,586 --> 00:34:07,003
and medical

2044
00:34:07,003 --> 00:34:08,129
examinations and

2045
00:34:08,129 --> 00:34:08,546
mental

2046
00:34:08,546 --> 00:34:09,088
health issues.

2047
00:34:09,088 --> 00:34:09,881
So it's, it's

2048
00:34:09,881 --> 00:34:10,506
very expensive.

2049
00:34:10,506 --> 00:34:11,049
It's one of my,

2050
00:34:11,049 --> 00:34:11,466
again, it's

2051
00:34:11,466 --> 00:34:12,091
one of my

2052
00:34:12,091 --> 00:34:12,633
favorite things

2053
00:34:12,633 --> 00:34:14,093
about the organization.

2054
00:34:14,093 --> 00:34:14,802
Yeah,

2055
00:34:14,802 --> 00:34:15,344
and again,

2056
00:34:15,344 --> 00:34:16,429
thanks to you

2057
00:34:16,429 --> 00:34:18,139
and to Damien

2058
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:19,057
and so many others

2059
00:34:19,057 --> 00:34:19,640
who helped

2060
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:20,933
build our Thai office

2061
00:34:20,933 --> 00:34:22,018
into the gold standard

2062
00:34:22,018 --> 00:34:22,477
it is

2063
00:34:22,477 --> 00:34:23,352
and our amazing

2064
00:34:23,352 --> 00:34:25,730
Thai colleagues.

2065
00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:26,731
And we have,

2066
00:34:26,731 --> 00:34:27,190
you know,

2067
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:27,607
you probably know

2068
00:34:27,607 --> 00:34:28,316
better than I do, but,

2069
00:34:28,316 --> 00:34:29,817
you know, upwards of 25,

2070
00:34:29,817 --> 00:34:30,902
30 or more

2071
00:34:30,902 --> 00:34:31,903
Thai nationals

2072
00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:32,987
working in our office.

2073
00:34:32,987 --> 00:34:33,821
And you have experts

2074
00:34:33,821 --> 00:34:35,031
in investigations,

2075
00:34:35,031 --> 00:34:36,908
in social work, and

2076
00:34:36,908 --> 00:34:38,743
digital forensics, and

2077
00:34:38,743 --> 00:34:39,619
this vital

2078
00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:40,536
aftercare program.

2079
00:34:40,536 --> 00:34:41,412
You talk about the child

2080
00:34:41,412 --> 00:34:41,871
forensic

2081
00:34:41,871 --> 00:34:42,622
interview rooms

2082
00:34:42,622 --> 00:34:43,664
and in our office.

2083
00:34:43,664 --> 00:34:44,749
And

2084
00:34:44,749 --> 00:34:45,291
thank you

2085
00:34:45,291 --> 00:34:46,209
now for being willing

2086
00:34:46,209 --> 00:34:46,459
to help

2087
00:34:46,459 --> 00:34:47,376
in other countries,

2088
00:34:47,376 --> 00:34:48,127
neighboring countries

2089
00:34:48,127 --> 00:34:48,711
in the region.

2090
00:34:48,711 --> 00:34:49,504
We're trying,

2091
00:34:49,504 --> 00:34:50,129
as this as

2092
00:34:50,129 --> 00:34:51,047
we transition now

2093
00:34:51,047 --> 00:34:53,174
to OUR Rescue as

2094
00:34:53,174 --> 00:34:54,383
we rebrand and continue

2095
00:34:54,383 --> 00:34:55,093
to build on

2096
00:34:55,093 --> 00:34:55,676
the good work

2097
00:34:55,676 --> 00:34:57,261
we've done in the past.

2098
00:34:57,261 --> 00:34:57,553
It's going

2099
00:34:57,553 --> 00:34:58,346
to be exciting to see

2100
00:34:58,346 --> 00:34:59,597
if we can build

2101
00:34:59,597 --> 00:35:00,515
sort of on this gold

2102
00:35:00,515 --> 00:35:00,890
standard

2103
00:35:00,890 --> 00:35:02,183
in Thai offices,

2104
00:35:02,183 --> 00:35:02,767
along the lines

2105
00:35:02,767 --> 00:35:03,559
of the Thai office,

2106
00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:04,852
in other countries.

2107
00:35:04,852 --> 00:35:05,686
But, Alex,

2108
00:35:05,686 --> 00:35:06,521
let's wrap up over

2109
00:35:06,521 --> 00:35:07,105
the next couple

2110
00:35:07,105 --> 00:35:08,564
of minutes talking about

2111
00:35:08,564 --> 00:35:09,107
where it really

2112
00:35:09,107 --> 00:35:10,066
comes down to now

2113
00:35:10,066 --> 00:35:10,817
because this isn't

2114
00:35:10,817 --> 00:35:11,526
hyperbole,

2115
00:35:11,526 --> 00:35:11,984
this isn't

2116
00:35:11,984 --> 00:35:13,444
over dramatization.

2117
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:15,238
But there are so many

2118
00:35:15,238 --> 00:35:16,197
other boys

2119
00:35:16,197 --> 00:35:17,031
in the green shirt,

2120
00:35:17,031 --> 00:35:17,365
right?

2121
00:35:17,365 --> 00:35:17,740
And other

2122
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:19,242
girls out there, child

2123
00:35:19,242 --> 00:35:20,660
victims, adult victims.

2124
00:35:20,660 --> 00:35:21,619
And we need to help

2125
00:35:21,619 --> 00:35:22,286
law enforcement

2126
00:35:22,286 --> 00:35:23,204
find them.

2127
00:35:23,204 --> 00:35:24,288
This individual here,

2128
00:35:24,288 --> 00:35:25,873
I think his name was Me.

2129
00:35:25,873 --> 00:35:26,457
There are other

2130
00:35:26,457 --> 00:35:27,625
Me's out there

2131
00:35:27,625 --> 00:35:28,376
who are

2132
00:35:28,376 --> 00:35:29,710
exploiting our children.

2133
00:35:29,710 --> 00:35:30,795
So what would you say,

2134
00:35:30,795 --> 00:35:31,671
Alex, is the

2135
00:35:31,671 --> 00:35:32,755
greatest need

2136
00:35:32,755 --> 00:35:33,506
now? Let's just start

2137
00:35:33,506 --> 00:35:33,798
right now

2138
00:35:33,798 --> 00:35:35,133
in Southeast Asia.

2139
00:35:35,133 --> 00:35:36,175
You mentioned earlier

2140
00:35:36,175 --> 00:35:37,885
the amazing results

2141
00:35:37,885 --> 00:35:38,511
that were found

2142
00:35:38,511 --> 00:35:39,303
in this investigation

2143
00:35:39,303 --> 00:35:40,680
because of the digital

2144
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:41,514
forensics equipment

2145
00:35:41,514 --> 00:35:41,973
and other things

2146
00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:42,765
that OUR Rescue

2147
00:35:42,765 --> 00:35:43,766
was able to provide.

2148
00:35:43,766 --> 00:35:44,308
What are the

2149
00:35:44,308 --> 00:35:45,143
greatest needs,

2150
00:35:45,143 --> 00:35:45,977
if someone listening,

2151
00:35:45,977 --> 00:35:46,561
saying, well,

2152
00:35:46,561 --> 00:35:47,228
even though I might

2153
00:35:47,228 --> 00:35:47,603
only be able

2154
00:35:47,603 --> 00:35:48,646
to give $5 a month

2155
00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:49,730
or $25 a month?

2156
00:35:49,730 --> 00:35:50,857
It all adds up.

2157
00:35:50,857 --> 00:35:52,233
What would

2158
00:35:52,233 --> 00:35:53,192
this money go

2159
00:35:53,192 --> 00:35:55,611
to to help our partners

2160
00:35:55,611 --> 00:35:56,988
rescue even more

2161
00:35:56,988 --> 00:35:57,822
children and,

2162
00:35:57,822 --> 00:35:58,281
you know, child

2163
00:35:58,281 --> 00:35:59,073
and adult victims

2164
00:35:59,073 --> 00:35:59,907
of exploitation

2165
00:35:59,907 --> 00:36:01,701
and human trafficking?

2166
00:36:01,701 --> 00:36:02,326
Yeah, you said it.

2167
00:36:02,326 --> 00:36:03,202
Every single

2168
00:36:03,202 --> 00:36:04,245
penny counts.

2169
00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:04,871
Every single

2170
00:36:04,871 --> 00:36:05,746
penny counts. It's -

2171
00:36:05,746 --> 00:36:06,122
these are

2172
00:36:06,122 --> 00:36:07,582
expensive cases.

2173
00:36:07,582 --> 00:36:09,584
And it goes towards

2174
00:36:09,584 --> 00:36:10,626
the proper tools

2175
00:36:10,626 --> 00:36:11,419
to work the cases.

2176
00:36:11,419 --> 00:36:13,129
We have

2177
00:36:14,422 --> 00:36:15,673
myself, we have,

2178
00:36:15,673 --> 00:36:16,257
you know, a

2179
00:36:16,257 --> 00:36:18,009
really wonderful team

2180
00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:18,593
in Thailand

2181
00:36:18,593 --> 00:36:18,968
and neighboring

2182
00:36:18,968 --> 00:36:20,386
countries. Our team -

2183
00:36:20,386 --> 00:36:21,053
we like to think

2184
00:36:21,053 --> 00:36:22,305
of ourselves as subject

2185
00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:22,889
matter experts.

2186
00:36:22,889 --> 00:36:24,307
We come from relevant

2187
00:36:24,307 --> 00:36:24,849
fields.

2188
00:36:24,849 --> 00:36:25,975
We've worked these cases

2189
00:36:25,975 --> 00:36:26,767
for years.

2190
00:36:26,767 --> 00:36:27,435
We're aware

2191
00:36:27,435 --> 00:36:28,186
of the industry

2192
00:36:28,186 --> 00:36:28,769
standard-type

2193
00:36:28,769 --> 00:36:29,645
software and hardware

2194
00:36:29,645 --> 00:36:31,397
that's necessary.

2195
00:36:31,397 --> 00:36:31,814
If you're going to

2196
00:36:31,814 --> 00:36:32,565
build a team

2197
00:36:32,565 --> 00:36:33,232
and you're tasked

2198
00:36:33,232 --> 00:36:34,609
with anti-trafficking,

2199
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:35,568
anti-exploitation,

2200
00:36:35,568 --> 00:36:36,194
there's certain things

2201
00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:37,195
you need.

2202
00:36:37,195 --> 00:36:37,445
And that's

2203
00:36:37,445 --> 00:36:37,862
where we direct

2204
00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:38,237
that money.

2205
00:36:38,237 --> 00:36:39,572
We direct it to training

2206
00:36:39,572 --> 00:36:40,740
so that

2207
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:41,741
law enforcement

2208
00:36:41,741 --> 00:36:42,491
officers

2209
00:36:42,491 --> 00:36:42,992
properly know

2210
00:36:42,992 --> 00:36:44,202
how to use equipment.

2211
00:36:44,202 --> 00:36:45,369
We, even though

2212
00:36:45,369 --> 00:36:46,245
we're non

2213
00:36:46,245 --> 00:36:46,996
law enforcement,

2214
00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:48,539
we kind of remain

2215
00:36:48,539 --> 00:36:49,582
at a law enforcement

2216
00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:50,499
standard, which is

2217
00:36:50,499 --> 00:36:52,668
certified software,

2218
00:36:52,668 --> 00:36:54,378
license investigators.

2219
00:36:54,378 --> 00:36:55,046
Or -

2220
00:36:55,046 --> 00:36:55,713
excuse me.

2221
00:36:55,713 --> 00:36:56,714
At a -

2222
00:36:56,714 --> 00:36:57,131
we like to

2223
00:36:57,131 --> 00:36:57,798
keep everything

2224
00:36:57,798 --> 00:36:58,633
at a law enforcement

2225
00:36:58,633 --> 00:36:59,050
standard,

2226
00:36:59,050 --> 00:36:59,800
which is

2227
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,052
licensed software

2228
00:37:01,052 --> 00:37:01,719
and certified

2229
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:02,386
analysts

2230
00:37:02,386 --> 00:37:03,429
and investigators

2231
00:37:03,429 --> 00:37:05,264
using that software.

2232
00:37:05,264 --> 00:37:05,681
You know,

2233
00:37:05,681 --> 00:37:06,599
we always say that

2234
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:08,309
we don't just give

2235
00:37:08,309 --> 00:37:09,227
someone a fish,

2236
00:37:09,227 --> 00:37:10,519
we teach them to fish.

2237
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:11,479
And so not only do

2238
00:37:11,479 --> 00:37:12,605
we give this equipment,

2239
00:37:12,605 --> 00:37:13,314
but we teach them.

2240
00:37:13,314 --> 00:37:13,940
We have experts

2241
00:37:13,940 --> 00:37:14,857
like you and others.

2242
00:37:14,857 --> 00:37:15,399
But, just

2243
00:37:15,399 --> 00:37:16,108
to give you an idea,

2244
00:37:16,108 --> 00:37:17,693
what would some of this

2245
00:37:17,693 --> 00:37:18,861
equipment cost?

2246
00:37:18,861 --> 00:37:19,695
And again,

2247
00:37:19,695 --> 00:37:21,405
I don't want the figure

2248
00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:22,573
to,

2249
00:37:22,573 --> 00:37:23,074
you know,

2250
00:37:23,074 --> 00:37:23,783
dissuade people

2251
00:37:23,783 --> 00:37:24,825
from giving $5

2252
00:37:24,825 --> 00:37:25,743
a month, $25 a month

2253
00:37:25,743 --> 00:37:25,993
because you

2254
00:37:25,993 --> 00:37:26,410
just said it,

2255
00:37:26,410 --> 00:37:27,370
every penny counts.

2256
00:37:27,370 --> 00:37:29,622
But just an idea of why

2257
00:37:29,622 --> 00:37:31,123
these host governments

2258
00:37:31,123 --> 00:37:32,208
overseas oftentimes

2259
00:37:32,208 --> 00:37:33,376
don't have the funding

2260
00:37:33,376 --> 00:37:33,709
for this

2261
00:37:33,709 --> 00:37:34,877
vital equipment

2262
00:37:34,877 --> 00:37:35,962
that some in U.S.

2263
00:37:35,962 --> 00:37:37,046
law enforcement take

2264
00:37:37,046 --> 00:37:37,672
for granted.

2265
00:37:38,965 --> 00:37:40,007
Right, it's expensive. You're

2266
00:37:40,007 --> 00:37:40,716
looking at, 

2267
00:37:40,716 --> 00:37:41,842
for just processing

2268
00:37:41,842 --> 00:37:43,844
cell phones, which

2269
00:37:43,844 --> 00:37:44,679
is a must have.

2270
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:45,846
If you're

2271
00:37:45,846 --> 00:37:47,056
a law enforcement agency

2272
00:37:47,056 --> 00:37:47,556
and you working

2273
00:37:47,556 --> 00:37:48,474
any type of case,

2274
00:37:48,474 --> 00:37:49,392
you have to process

2275
00:37:49,392 --> 00:37:50,309
cell phones.

2276
00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:50,559
When we're

2277
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:51,394
talking about cases

2278
00:37:51,394 --> 00:37:52,895
like child exploitation,

2279
00:37:52,895 --> 00:37:53,187
where it's

2280
00:37:53,187 --> 00:37:54,647
multimedia driven,

2281
00:37:54,647 --> 00:37:55,147
it's probably

2282
00:37:55,147 --> 00:37:55,773
the number one thing

2283
00:37:55,773 --> 00:37:56,774
that we process.

2284
00:37:56,774 --> 00:37:57,024
You know,

2285
00:37:57,024 --> 00:37:58,109
you're looking at just

2286
00:37:58,109 --> 00:37:59,402
be able to

2287
00:37:59,402 --> 00:38:01,070
process phones properly,

2288
00:38:01,070 --> 00:38:02,154
$8-10,000

2289
00:38:02,154 --> 00:38:03,239
just to purchase a unit.

2290
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,198
That's the hardware.

2291
00:38:04,198 --> 00:38:04,448
Then you're

2292
00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:05,074
looking at between

2293
00:38:05,074 --> 00:38:06,575
$5-8,000

2294
00:38:06,575 --> 00:38:08,244
per year on the license

2295
00:38:08,244 --> 00:38:08,911
just to keep it up

2296
00:38:08,911 --> 00:38:09,704
with all the updates

2297
00:38:09,704 --> 00:38:10,997
and software updates

2298
00:38:10,997 --> 00:38:11,622
that are necessary

2299
00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:12,665
to properly

2300
00:38:12,665 --> 00:38:13,958
extract data

2301
00:38:13,958 --> 00:38:14,709
from

2302
00:38:14,709 --> 00:38:15,876
cell phone devices.

2303
00:38:15,876 --> 00:38:16,627
So it's expensive.

2304
00:38:16,627 --> 00:38:17,503
And then on top of that,

2305
00:38:17,503 --> 00:38:18,713
there's,

2306
00:38:18,713 --> 00:38:18,963
you know,

2307
00:38:18,963 --> 00:38:19,922
traditional hard drives

2308
00:38:19,922 --> 00:38:20,715
that are in laptops

2309
00:38:20,715 --> 00:38:21,382
and desktops

2310
00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:22,675
and gaming machines.

2311
00:38:22,675 --> 00:38:23,342
Same thing.

2312
00:38:23,342 --> 00:38:24,135
You know,

2313
00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:25,261
that software is

2314
00:38:25,261 --> 00:38:26,387
five, six thousand

2315
00:38:27,638 --> 00:38:28,514
per piece of

2316
00:38:28,514 --> 00:38:29,682
software and

2317
00:38:29,682 --> 00:38:30,516
then at least four

2318
00:38:30,516 --> 00:38:32,059
or five thousand per year

2319
00:38:32,059 --> 00:38:32,560
to run those.

2320
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,436
And each year,

2321
00:38:33,436 --> 00:38:34,353
you need it to update.

2322
00:38:34,353 --> 00:38:36,480
And then it's a couple thousand dollars
to train each officer

2323
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,900
to get certified where they're properly,
they understand how the software works.

2324
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:42,278
They're able to testify in court and all that's admissable. 

2325
00:38:42,278 --> 00:38:45,197
We're able to get that bad guy locked up.

2326
00:38:45,197 --> 00:38:45,614
And yet,

2327
00:38:45,614 --> 00:38:46,240
thanks to the

2328
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:47,575
generosity of donors

2329
00:38:47,575 --> 00:38:48,284
to OUR Rescue,

2330
00:38:48,284 --> 00:38:49,285
we have been able

2331
00:38:49,285 --> 00:38:50,745
to bring the funds in

2332
00:38:50,745 --> 00:38:52,121
to provide

2333
00:38:52,121 --> 00:38:52,663
such a great

2334
00:38:52,663 --> 00:38:53,622
deal of support

2335
00:38:53,622 --> 00:38:54,582
in terms of equipment

2336
00:38:54,582 --> 00:38:55,207
and training

2337
00:38:55,207 --> 00:38:56,083
to our Southeast

2338
00:38:56,083 --> 00:38:56,792
Asia partners.

2339
00:38:56,792 --> 00:38:57,418
But the need is

2340
00:38:57,418 --> 00:38:58,127
greater than ever,

2341
00:38:58,127 --> 00:38:58,961
and we need to

2342
00:38:58,961 --> 00:38:59,420
to do this

2343
00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:00,421
across the world.

2344
00:39:00,421 --> 00:39:01,172
I'm going to go off

2345
00:39:01,172 --> 00:39:01,797
script with one

2346
00:39:01,797 --> 00:39:02,631
final question

2347
00:39:02,631 --> 00:39:03,299
for you, Alex,

2348
00:39:03,299 --> 00:39:03,841
and I've known you

2349
00:39:03,841 --> 00:39:04,383
for a while.

2350
00:39:04,383 --> 00:39:05,301
And, you know, to the extent

2351
00:39:05,301 --> 00:39:06,052
that I was,

2352
00:39:06,052 --> 00:39:06,761
back in the day,

2353
00:39:06,761 --> 00:39:07,511
leading international

2354
00:39:07,511 --> 00:39:08,262
operations,

2355
00:39:08,262 --> 00:39:08,971
it was tough.

2356
00:39:08,971 --> 00:39:09,972
It was gut-wrenching.

2357
00:39:09,972 --> 00:39:11,057
But I never had to

2358
00:39:11,057 --> 00:39:12,725
see what you have seen

2359
00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:13,225
and continue

2360
00:39:13,225 --> 00:39:13,559
to see.

2361
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:14,727
These type of images.

2362
00:39:14,727 --> 00:39:15,603
I'm sure supporters

2363
00:39:15,603 --> 00:39:16,103
want to know,

2364
00:39:16,103 --> 00:39:17,730
how do you keep yourself

2365
00:39:17,730 --> 00:39:18,856
mentally healthy?

2366
00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:19,231
How do you

2367
00:39:19,231 --> 00:39:20,316
protect yourself from

2368
00:39:20,316 --> 00:39:21,275
just this evil?

2369
00:39:21,275 --> 00:39:21,776
How do you

2370
00:39:21,776 --> 00:39:22,860
compartmentalize

2371
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:24,028
so that this doesn't

2372
00:39:24,028 --> 00:39:24,653
do what I'm sure

2373
00:39:24,653 --> 00:39:25,237
it would do to me,

2374
00:39:25,237 --> 00:39:25,529
lead me

2375
00:39:25,529 --> 00:39:26,113
to just go home

2376
00:39:26,113 --> 00:39:26,405
and be in a

2377
00:39:26,405 --> 00:39:27,698
fetal position all day

2378
00:39:27,698 --> 00:39:28,949
and never live my life.

2379
00:39:28,949 --> 00:39:29,200
And yet,

2380
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,117
knowing you,

2381
00:39:30,117 --> 00:39:30,993
you're happy.

2382
00:39:30,993 --> 00:39:31,494
You're

2383
00:39:31,494 --> 00:39:32,370
healthy.

2384
00:39:32,370 --> 00:39:32,787
Yes,

2385
00:39:32,787 --> 00:39:33,454
it's horrible

2386
00:39:33,454 --> 00:39:33,871
what you do

2387
00:39:33,871 --> 00:39:34,372
each day,

2388
00:39:34,372 --> 00:39:34,955
but you know

2389
00:39:34,955 --> 00:39:35,498
you're doing it

2390
00:39:35,498 --> 00:39:36,123
for a cause.

2391
00:39:36,123 --> 00:39:37,375
But how do you do this?

2392
00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:38,334
I can't even imagine,

2393
00:39:38,334 --> 00:39:38,709
Alex.

2394
00:39:39,794 --> 00:39:40,378
I'm part of a great team,

2395
00:39:40,378 --> 00:39:41,003
So I have a lot

2396
00:39:41,003 --> 00:39:41,545
of great people

2397
00:39:41,545 --> 00:39:42,254
that surround,

2398
00:39:42,254 --> 00:39:43,464
you know, surround me.

2399
00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:45,925
I look at -

2400
00:39:45,925 --> 00:39:46,467
you know, I've been doing it

2401
00:39:46,467 --> 00:39:47,426
a long time, and,

2402
00:39:47,426 --> 00:39:48,344
you know, at times, it

2403
00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:49,261
still does bother you.

2404
00:39:49,261 --> 00:39:50,304
And there's good days

2405
00:39:50,304 --> 00:39:51,180
and there's bad days.

2406
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:52,223
But again,

2407
00:39:52,223 --> 00:39:53,182
it's small victories

2408
00:39:53,182 --> 00:39:53,933
for me.

2409
00:39:53,933 --> 00:39:55,351
It's stopping,

2410
00:39:55,351 --> 00:39:55,810
even if it's

2411
00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:56,727
just stopping

2412
00:39:56,727 --> 00:39:57,937
the abuse of one child

2413
00:39:57,937 --> 00:39:59,355
on my next case,

2414
00:39:59,355 --> 00:39:59,522
you know,

2415
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:00,231
I'll ride that wave

2416
00:40:00,231 --> 00:40:01,690
for as long as I can.

2417
00:40:01,690 --> 00:40:02,566
You know, looking at the

2418
00:40:02,566 --> 00:40:04,402
at the content now, I,

2419
00:40:04,402 --> 00:40:05,903
you know, it's

2420
00:40:05,903 --> 00:40:07,279
just pixels now.

2421
00:40:07,279 --> 00:40:07,947
You know,

2422
00:40:07,947 --> 00:40:08,406
there's

2423
00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:09,031
certain things

2424
00:40:09,031 --> 00:40:09,865
now when I'm looking

2425
00:40:09,865 --> 00:40:10,825
at a digital photograph,

2426
00:40:10,825 --> 00:40:12,660
I'm, I'm interested in

2427
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:13,744
can I extract the make

2428
00:40:13,744 --> 00:40:14,161
and model

2429
00:40:14,161 --> 00:40:15,454
of the camera device

2430
00:40:15,454 --> 00:40:16,163
or the phone device

2431
00:40:16,163 --> 00:40:16,872
that took the photo?

2432
00:40:16,872 --> 00:40:17,081
Is there

2433
00:40:17,081 --> 00:40:18,624
GPS embedded in there?

2434
00:40:18,624 --> 00:40:18,833
Are there

2435
00:40:18,833 --> 00:40:19,917
things I can pull?

2436
00:40:19,917 --> 00:40:20,543
What are those

2437
00:40:20,543 --> 00:40:22,002
those electrical outlets

2438
00:40:22,002 --> 00:40:22,420
in the back?

2439
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:23,003
Are those U.S.

2440
00:40:23,003 --> 00:40:24,296
plugs or European plugs?

2441
00:40:24,296 --> 00:40:24,713
Or are those in

2442
00:40:24,713 --> 00:40:26,507
Australia plugs?

2443
00:40:26,507 --> 00:40:27,091
You know, it's just,

2444
00:40:27,091 --> 00:40:29,510
I keep my mind busy,

2445
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:31,095
focusing on things

2446
00:40:31,095 --> 00:40:32,930
that are, that are,

2447
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:33,597
that are relevant

2448
00:40:33,597 --> 00:40:34,432
to the investigation,

2449
00:40:34,432 --> 00:40:35,599
that inevitably can lead

2450
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:36,267
to the identity

2451
00:40:36,267 --> 00:40:37,393
of a victim and

2452
00:40:37,393 --> 00:40:38,477
put a bad guy in jail.

2453
00:40:39,937 --> 00:40:40,354
Yeah.

2454
00:40:40,354 --> 00:40:41,272
And again, one thing

2455
00:40:41,272 --> 00:40:41,814
you talked about at

2456
00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:42,398
the outset

2457
00:40:42,398 --> 00:40:43,649
of this episode when

2458
00:40:43,649 --> 00:40:43,899
we were talking

2459
00:40:43,899 --> 00:40:44,859
about the investigation,

2460
00:40:44,859 --> 00:40:45,192
I can't

2461
00:40:45,192 --> 00:40:45,568
even imagine

2462
00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:46,193
the horrible things

2463
00:40:46,193 --> 00:40:47,236
that were on the image

2464
00:40:47,236 --> 00:40:47,695
and images

2465
00:40:47,695 --> 00:40:48,195
you were looking at.

2466
00:40:48,195 --> 00:40:48,696
But what were you

2467
00:40:48,696 --> 00:40:49,321
keyed on?

2468
00:40:49,321 --> 00:40:50,197
A tattoo

2469
00:40:50,197 --> 00:40:50,906
on a hand,

2470
00:40:50,906 --> 00:40:52,241
right? On an arm.

2471
00:40:52,241 --> 00:40:53,117
And then from there,

2472
00:40:53,117 --> 00:40:53,909
you see what that,

2473
00:40:53,909 --> 00:40:55,619
what that led to.

2474
00:40:55,619 --> 00:40:56,620
You know,

2475
00:40:56,620 --> 00:40:57,204
there's so many

2476
00:40:57,204 --> 00:40:57,746
small things

2477
00:40:57,746 --> 00:40:58,289
in each case.

2478
00:40:58,289 --> 00:40:59,457
But this case,

2479
00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:00,332
it came down

2480
00:41:00,332 --> 00:41:01,167
to that tattoo,

2481
00:41:01,167 --> 00:41:02,126
and it came down to

2482
00:41:02,126 --> 00:41:03,502
a small metal

2483
00:41:03,502 --> 00:41:05,337
latch on a window

2484
00:41:05,337 --> 00:41:06,380
that was

2485
00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:07,381
in one of the bedrooms

2486
00:41:07,381 --> 00:41:07,882
at the Nene

2487
00:41:07,882 --> 00:41:08,674
Modelling Agency

2488
00:41:08,674 --> 00:41:09,216
that we didn't know

2489
00:41:09,216 --> 00:41:10,468
about till the very end.

2490
00:41:10,468 --> 00:41:11,093
Those two,

2491
00:41:11,093 --> 00:41:12,386
those two small things

2492
00:41:12,386 --> 00:41:13,137
that so easily could

2493
00:41:13,137 --> 00:41:13,804
have been overlooked

2494
00:41:15,681 --> 00:41:16,891
saved,

2495
00:41:16,891 --> 00:41:18,517
saved a lot of kids.

2496
00:41:18,517 --> 00:41:19,727
Well, just incredible.

2497
00:41:19,727 --> 00:41:19,894
Well,

2498
00:41:19,894 --> 00:41:20,978
thank you for your work

2499
00:41:20,978 --> 00:41:21,479
on the case.

2500
00:41:21,479 --> 00:41:22,021
I know you've

2501
00:41:22,021 --> 00:41:22,646
got some others

2502
00:41:22,646 --> 00:41:23,189
in the hopper

2503
00:41:23,189 --> 00:41:24,023
that we're not yet

2504
00:41:24,023 --> 00:41:25,107
able to talk about

2505
00:41:25,107 --> 00:41:25,983
as the legal process

2506
00:41:25,983 --> 00:41:26,525
moves forward,

2507
00:41:26,525 --> 00:41:27,568
but we definitely want

2508
00:41:27,568 --> 00:41:29,153
to have you on a future

2509
00:41:29,153 --> 00:41:30,196
episode of Voices

2510
00:41:30,196 --> 00:41:30,696
for Freedom.

2511
00:41:30,696 --> 00:41:31,113
Alex,

2512
00:41:31,113 --> 00:41:31,822
thank you so much

2513
00:41:31,822 --> 00:41:32,948
for staying up late,

2514
00:41:32,948 --> 00:41:33,574
and thank you

2515
00:41:33,574 --> 00:41:34,408
for all you do

2516
00:41:34,408 --> 00:41:35,493
to support OUR Rescue.

2517
00:41:35,493 --> 00:41:36,243
Please stay safe

2518
00:41:36,243 --> 00:41:38,829
over there, my friend.
Thanks for having me, Matt.

2519
00:41:38,829 --> 00:41:39,538
You bet.

2520
00:41:39,538 --> 00:41:40,748
And thank you very much

2521
00:41:40,748 --> 00:41:41,373
for tuning in

2522
00:41:41,373 --> 00:41:42,208
to this episode

2523
00:41:42,208 --> 00:41:43,250
of Voices for Freedom,

2524
00:41:43,250 --> 00:41:44,251
an anti-trafficking

2525
00:41:44,251 --> 00:41:45,002
podcast,

2526
00:41:45,002 --> 00:41:45,419
brought to you

2527
00:41:45,419 --> 00:41:46,295
by OUR Rescue.

2528
00:41:46,295 --> 00:41:47,213
We're so grateful

2529
00:41:47,213 --> 00:41:48,047
to Alex,

2530
00:41:48,047 --> 00:41:49,173
to his colleagues,

2531
00:41:49,173 --> 00:41:50,216
the men and women

2532
00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:51,008
of OUR Rescue

2533
00:41:51,008 --> 00:41:51,717
in the United States

2534
00:41:51,717 --> 00:41:52,551
and around the world

2535
00:41:52,551 --> 00:41:53,552
doing so much

2536
00:41:53,552 --> 00:41:54,053
to fight

2537
00:41:54,053 --> 00:41:55,179
child exploitation

2538
00:41:55,179 --> 00:41:56,680
and human trafficking.

2539
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,723
We're excited to kick

2540
00:41:57,723 --> 00:41:59,308
this podcast series off.

2541
00:41:59,308 --> 00:41:59,725
We're going to have

2542
00:41:59,725 --> 00:42:00,893
incredible episodes.

2543
00:42:00,893 --> 00:42:02,102
Please do tune

2544
00:42:02,102 --> 00:42:03,187
in each week.

2545
00:42:03,187 --> 00:42:04,188
Thank you so much.

2546
00:42:04,188 --> 00:42:05,439
As always, please

2547
00:42:05,439 --> 00:42:06,273
continue to do all

2548
00:42:06,273 --> 00:42:07,024
you can

2549
00:42:07,024 --> 00:42:08,692
to support OUR Rescue.

2550
00:42:08,692 --> 00:42:09,568
We'll see you next time.

2551
00:42:10,819 --> 00:42:12,029
Thanks for listening.

2552
00:42:12,029 --> 00:42:12,321
Did you

2553
00:42:12,321 --> 00:42:13,739
enjoy this episode?

2554
00:42:13,739 --> 00:42:14,406
If so,

2555
00:42:14,406 --> 00:42:15,032
please leave us

2556
00:42:15,032 --> 00:42:16,367
a review and subscribe

2557
00:42:16,367 --> 00:42:17,159
wherever you listen

2558
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:18,285
to podcasts.

2559
00:42:18,285 --> 00:42:19,203
If you have ideas

2560
00:42:19,203 --> 00:42:20,579
for future episodes,

2561
00:42:20,579 --> 00:42:21,956
email us at

2562
00:42:21,956 --> 00:42:22,706
VoicesforFreedom@ourrescue.org

2563
00:42:22,706 --> 00:42:24,875



2564
00:42:24,875 --> 00:42:25,459
Lastly,

2565
00:42:25,459 --> 00:42:26,544
we encourage you

2566
00:42:26,544 --> 00:42:27,920
to join the fight.

2567
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,296
Make a difference today

2568
00:42:29,296 --> 00:42:30,089
by donating

2569
00:42:30,089 --> 00:42:32,174
at ourrescue.org,

2570
00:42:32,174 --> 00:42:33,759
or text "Podcast"

2571
00:42:33,759 --> 00:42:37,680
to 855-944-5646.

2572
00:42:38,013 --> 00:42:39,014
Again, that number

2573
00:42:39,014 --> 00:42:43,769
is 855-944-5646.

2574
00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:47,106
On the next episode

2575
00:42:47,106 --> 00:42:48,232
of Voices for Freedom,

2576
00:42:48,232 --> 00:42:49,149
an anti-trafficking

2577
00:42:49,149 --> 00:42:49,858
podcast,

2578
00:42:49,858 --> 00:42:50,484
join me

2579
00:42:50,484 --> 00:42:51,443
as I have the privilege

2580
00:42:51,443 --> 00:42:52,111
to interview

2581
00:42:52,111 --> 00:42:53,404
the new CEO

2582
00:42:53,404 --> 00:42:54,488
of OUR Rescue,

2583
00:42:54,488 --> 00:42:55,489
Tammy Lee.

2584
00:42:55,489 --> 00:42:56,240
You won't want

2585
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:56,824
to miss hearing

2586
00:42:56,824 --> 00:42:57,825
about the future of this

2587
00:42:57,825 --> 00:42:59,159
amazing organization.

2588
00:42:59,159 --> 00:42:59,785
Join us on

2589
00:42:59,785 --> 00:43:00,744
Voices for Freedom.